Re: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

As disgusting as it is, you just have to assume no one washes their hands.
I too use a paper towell to open the doors, but does it really make a
difference. You get back to the table and pick up filthy chips. Just do
not touch your hands to your mouth, nose or eyes.

Also watch out for the buffet. Use napkin to handle the utensils at the hog
trough.

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Bob Bartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "skiallsix" <emailscot@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > They are the same pros who light up a cigarette without asking. They are
> the same pros who don't wash their hands after using the toilet in their
> rush to the buffet line.
> >
>
> This was funny. And I don't know whether it's the "pros" who do this, but I
> know it is so true that a large percent of casino gamblers do not wash their
> hands after using the restroom. Not that I'm looking for this, lol, but once
> you notice this phenomenon in the first place you can't help but notice it
> forever. And people are pigs, I swear I have seen people not only skip
> washing their hands after using the urinal but also after coming out of a
> stall. OMG!
>
> I have to use a paper towel after drying my hands just to touch the door to
> exit the restroom because I'm imagining all of the filth on the door handle.
> So gross! And these people are going right back to the slot machines or the
> poker table. Can you imagine the microscopic filth on poker chips? Yech!
>
> Do you remember the episode of Seinfeld where the restaurant owner didn't
> wash his hands? Ha ha, that was funny.
>
>
>

--
Jack

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

No offense, but if I walk up to a BJ table with an empty seat and I want to play, I'm taking the seat and joining the action if I already have chips without regard to the status of the shoe. You'll never be able to convince me that doing that disrupts the "flow" (whatever you mean by that term) in any way. If I walk up with chips, sit down, and make my wager I guarantee it won't impact the speed with which that hand is dealt. If someone doing that is all it takes to knock you off your rhythm and negatively impact your overall enjoyment of the game, I would submit that the problem doesn't lie with the person joining the game midshoe. Walking-up with cash and buying-in midshoe, on the other hand, has always struck me as rude. Not as rude as buying-in midroll on a craps table, but rude nonetheless. It doesn't bother me much at the BJ table, but I get why it does bother others. It doesn't impact the bottom line in any predictable way, but if it negatively impacts your enjoyment of the game I understand it. And FWIW some of the most enjoyable runs at BJ tables I have ever had involved drunk and bling festooned 20-somethings staggering in and out of the action. Never underestimate the entertainment value of people watching at casinos. And never underestimate the value of having other people at a table drawing virtually 100% of the attention of the casino when you are counting cards.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: rprosdc@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:42:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender






On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:08 PM, jwboothjw <traveller88888@hotmail.com>wrote:

> **

>

>

>

>

> "only to have some drunk or bling festooned 20-something stagger up to tour

> table and disrupt its flow..."

>

> "flow" is Voodoo.

>

I am saddened to learn that you've never been at a friendly table where

players, dealers and sometimes even the house are having a good time.. Some

may be winning, some losing ...but all are having an enjoyable session. You

may call it "voodoo" but it actually does happen ... and it is easily

disrupted by the sorts of anti-social intrusion I mentioned.

> In one of your first posts you clearly state that someone entering

> mid-shoe creates bad luck (or words clearly to that effect).

>

No I said "effectively the tables luck". I erroneously left out the word

"changes", an error caught earlier by another reader. I did not suggest that

the luck changed for the better or worse -- my point was, and is, that such

ad hoc intrusions inevitably alter the hands dealt after the intrusion.

But I followed that up (and closed) with:

"It should be a matter of common courtesy. If I see a seat at table that I

want to join, I wait until the next shoe to start playing....unless invited

to join by those already in the game."

Finally you accuse me of grumbling that "the"flow" has been "disrupted""

I plead guilty to that charge --- although you wish to perjoratively

characterize respect for other players as "voodoo".

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[vpFREE] One more question about M Progressives

 

I'm sorry, I did not understand what was discussed on tonight's show. Did they say they were going to lower the meter rise?

I did understand that they were switching the SDB game to TDB. And also that the overall profit on the quarter games was, a dollar. But I must have missed the first part of the show or something because I am not sure what all they said they were going to change.

And also, Frank's announcement of his intent to leave is very disappointing. Saw it coming, but still disappointing. I hope he is still going to be a regular or semi-regular poster on this group.

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rprosdc <rprosdc@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:08 PM, jwboothjw <traveller88888@...>wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "only to have some drunk or bling festooned 20-something stagger up to tour
> > table and disrupt its flow..."
> >
> > "flow" is Voodoo.
> >
>
> I am saddened to learn that you've never been at a friendly table where
> players, dealers and sometimes even the house are having a good time.. Some
> may be winning, some losing ...but all are having an enjoyable session. You
> may call it "voodoo" but it actually does happen ... and it is easily
> disrupted by the sorts of anti-social intrusion I mentioned.
>
>
> > In one of your first posts you clearly state that someone entering
> > mid-shoe creates bad luck (or words clearly to that effect).
> >
>
> No I said "effectively the tables luck". I erroneously left out the word
> "changes", an error caught earlier by another reader. I did not suggest that
> the luck changed for the better or worse -- my point was, and is, that such
> ad hoc intrusions inevitably alter the hands dealt after the intrusion.
>
> But I followed that up (and closed) with:
>
> "It should be a matter of common courtesy. If I see a seat at table that I
> want to join, I wait until the next shoe to start playing....unless invited
> to join by those already in the game."
>
> Finally you accuse me of grumbling that "the"flow" has been "disrupted""
>
> I plead guilty to that charge --- although you wish to perjoratively
> characterize respect for other players as "voodoo".

I find it disrespectful for someone to ask me to wait till the next shoe before sitting down.

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "skiallsix" <emailscot@...> wrote:

>
> They are the same pros who light up a cigarette without asking. They are the same pros who don't wash their hands after using the toilet in their rush to the buffet line.
>

This was funny. And I don't know whether it's the "pros" who do this, but I know it is so true that a large percent of casino gamblers do not wash their hands after using the restroom. Not that I'm looking for this, lol, but once you notice this phenomenon in the first place you can't help but notice it forever. And people are pigs, I swear I have seen people not only skip washing their hands after using the urinal but also after coming out of a stall. OMG!

I have to use a paper towel after drying my hands just to touch the door to exit the restroom because I'm imagining all of the filth on the door handle. So gross! And these people are going right back to the slot machines or the poker table. Can you imagine the microscopic filth on poker chips? Yech!

Do you remember the episode of Seinfeld where the restaurant owner didn't wash his hands? Ha ha, that was funny.

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[vpFREE] Gambling With an Edge July 21st

 

You all already know that Bill Zender is coming on.

I will also be announcing on-air the changes at M that I just received about 10 min ago.

And lastly, I have a major announcement to make that may come as a shock to some of you, and possibly please others. I hoping more are in the former category.

Our Live Air-Time is: 7 PM Thursday nights on KLAV Talk-Radio 1230am In Las Vegas. You can listen live at: http://www.klav1230am.com/

Or you can download it later from my site or Bob's.

~FK

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 

These comments apply to many gamblers in general and are not limited to pros/ AP's. Courtesy in a casino is less prevalent than in normal situations. IMHO.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "skiallsix" <emailscot@...> wrote:
>
> Don't worry about the harsh comments rprosdc. Etiquette is a foreign word to many of these pros.
>
> They are the same pros who light up a cigarette without asking. They are the same pros who don't wash their hands after using the toilet in their rush to the buffet line.
>
> Wonging in is not only rude, but it hurts the current players because it limits the number of hands playable before the next shuffle.
>
> Do you think any of these pros care about how many hands you get to play in the current deck? Do you think any of these pros care about your health while they blow smoke in your face. Do you think any of these pros care about the added flavor of their toilet seat being transferred to the buffet spoon?
>

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "skiallsix" <emailscot@...> wrote:
Don't worry about the harsh comments rprosdc. Etiquette is a foreign word to many of these pros.

In all this fray I just had to interject some humor and history.

"Etiquette" actually is a foreign word unless you are French, which struck me as funny.

Dictionary.com had this to say:
1750, from Fr. étiquette "prescribed behavior," from O.Fr. estiquette "label, ticket" (see ticket). The sense development in French perhaps is from small cards written or printed with instructions for how to behave properly at court (cf. It. etichetta, Sp. etiqueta), and/or from behavior instructions written on a soldier's billet for lodgings (the main sense of the O.Fr. word).

This from Word-Origins:
Etiquette is, almost literally, `just the ticket'. The primary meanings of French ̩tiquette are `ticket' and `label' Рand indeed it is the source of English ticket. A particular application of it in former times was to a small card which had written or printed on it directions as to how to behave properly at court Рhence it came to mean `prescribed code of social behavior'.

~FK

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 

Don't worry about the harsh comments rprosdc. Etiquette is a foreign word to many of these pros.

They are the same pros who light up a cigarette without asking. They are the same pros who don't wash their hands after using the toilet in their rush to the buffet line.

Wonging in is not only rude, but it hurts the current players because it limits the number of hands playable before the next shuffle.

Do you think any of these pros care about how many hands you get to play in the current deck? Do you think any of these pros care about your health while they blow smoke in your face. Do you think any of these pros care about the added flavor of their toilet seat being transferred to the buffet spoon?

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Re: [vpFREE] BJ Etiquette--was Bill Zender--and also generated a sidebar on "changing luck"

I have been known to change back and forth between one and two hands to
change the "flow" - at least that's what I suggest I'm doing.

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:58 PM, 007 <007@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Rprosdc wrote:
>
> >A reaffirmation of my initial statement of belief that the long run impact
> >of what other players do is insignificant also prefaced my subsequent
> post:
> >
> >
> >
> >"For what it is worth, I agree that the play of other individuals at the
> >table, in the long run, has no impact on my success. As long as they don't
> >jump into the game mid-shoe (thus disrupting it's flow)."
>
> ???
>
> You seem to think that "As long as they don't jump into the game
> mid-shoe" doesn't qualify "the play of other individuals at the table,
> in the long run, has no impact on my success." I'm sorry, but that
> second statement can only mean that you believe that other individuals
> jumping into the game mid-shoe has an impact on your long run success,
> which is a statement about mathematics that no knowledgeable person is
> going to agree with. If you don't mean that and you want anyone else
> to understand you, you're going to have to use different words. Is
> there some non-mathematical way that other individuals jumping into
> the game mid-shoe has an impact on your long run success?
>
>

--
Jack

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1. Avoid giving your or anyone else's email address to any web site.
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Re: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 

Rprosdc wrote:

>such ad hoc intrusions inevitably alter the hands dealt after the intrusion.

But anything does that. Someone sneezing might change a player's
decision or how the dealer shuffles, thus changing the outcomes. How
does any of that affect anyone's long run success?

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Re: [vpFREE] BJ Etiquette--was Bill Zender--and also generated a sidebar on "changing luck"

 

Rprosdc wrote:

>A reaffirmation of my initial statement of belief that the long run impact
>of what other players do is insignificant also prefaced my subsequent post:
>
>
>
>"For what it is worth, I agree that the play of other individuals at the
>table, in the long run, has no impact on my success. As long as they don't
>jump into the game mid-shoe (thus disrupting it's flow)."

???

You seem to think that "As long as they don't jump into the game
mid-shoe" doesn't qualify "the play of other individuals at the table,
in the long run, has no impact on my success." I'm sorry, but that
second statement can only mean that you believe that other individuals
jumping into the game mid-shoe has an impact on your long run success,
which is a statement about mathematics that no knowledgeable person is
going to agree with. If you don't mean that and you want anyone else
to understand you, you're going to have to use different words. Is
there some non-mathematical way that other individuals jumping into
the game mid-shoe has an impact on your long run success?

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:08 PM, jwboothjw <traveller88888@hotmail.com>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> "only to have some drunk or bling festooned 20-something stagger up to tour
> table and disrupt its flow..."
>
> "flow" is Voodoo.
>

I am saddened to learn that you've never been at a friendly table where
players, dealers and sometimes even the house are having a good time.. Some
may be winning, some losing ...but all are having an enjoyable session. You
may call it "voodoo" but it actually does happen ... and it is easily
disrupted by the sorts of anti-social intrusion I mentioned.

> In one of your first posts you clearly state that someone entering
> mid-shoe creates bad luck (or words clearly to that effect).
>

No I said "effectively the tables luck". I erroneously left out the word
"changes", an error caught earlier by another reader. I did not suggest that
the luck changed for the better or worse -- my point was, and is, that such
ad hoc intrusions inevitably alter the hands dealt after the intrusion.

But I followed that up (and closed) with:

"It should be a matter of common courtesy. If I see a seat at table that I
want to join, I wait until the next shoe to start playing....unless invited
to join by those already in the game."

Finally you accuse me of grumbling that "the"flow" has been "disrupted""

I plead guilty to that charge --- although you wish to perjoratively
characterize respect for other players as "voodoo".

>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rprosdc <rprosdc@...> wrote:
>
> If I had any reason to think that you'd read my note in the first place, I'd
> take your note a bit more seriously. But instead you create another strawman
> and then flail at it. I have not challenged any of the math that you feel I
> do not understand, and find it odd that you'd consider my opipnion to be
> "voodoo". As near as I can tell we both subscribe to the same "in the
> long-range" bible.
>
> If you are lucky enough to never have been at a smoothly working BJ table,
> only to have some drunk or bling festooned 20-something stagger up to tour
> table and disrupt its flow, I am happy for you ... sonewhat incredulous, but
> happy.

"only to have some drunk or bling festooned 20-something stagger up to tour table and disrupt its flow..."

"flow" is Voodoo.

In one of your first posts you clearly state that someone entering mid-shoe creates bad luck (or words clearly to that effect).

After you were corrected, you changed your problem with mid-shoe entry to bad manners on the part of the entrant.

Now you've retreated to a smoothly functioning table and apparently the problem now is the "flow" has been "disrupted"...

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rprosdc <rprosdc@...> wrote:
>

>
> I know the industry came up the mid-shoe entry bar to prevent "Wonging".
> Every now and then the suits make an error that hurts them and helps
> players...barring mid-shoe entry was one of them.

Since anyone "Wonging in" would most likely be betting very high to take advantage of the excess 10s in the shoe or deck, barring mid shoe entry would be good for both the casino and the players currently playing at the table since it would decrease the amount that the casino would lose while players have the advantage. On the other hand, if players are allowed to "Wong in" it sends a message to players who aren't counting.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

You cannot seem to understand that it is not "your" table and that there is
NO flow.

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Rprosdc <rprosdc@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> If I had any reason to think that you'd read my note in the first place,
> I'd
> take your note a bit more seriously. But instead you create another
> strawman
> and then flail at it. I have not challenged any of the math that you feel I
> do not understand, and find it odd that you'd consider my opipnion to be
> "voodoo". As near as I can tell we both subscribe to the same "in the
> long-range" bible.
>
> If you are lucky enough to never have been at a smoothly working BJ table,
> only to have some drunk or bling festooned 20-something stagger up to tour
> table and disrupt its flow, I am happy for you ... sonewhat incredulous,
> but
> happy.
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 2:08 PM, ma18ks <89109.nv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The term "audacity" was used under the assumption that one of the primary
> > purposes of this forum is to distribute useful information on the subject
> of
> > advantage play. My reply to your post was less about calling you out.
> > Rather, it was intended to elicit a response from my fellow members who
> > understand - or at least embrace - the basic tenets of mathematics, and
> > disregard misinformation and other "voodoo." The number of quality
> replies
> > is encouraging.
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Jack

Tips to keep private email addresses out of the hands of spammers:
1. Avoid giving your or anyone else's email address to any web site.
2. Instead of forwarding email, cut and paste the text or edit to remove
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[vpFREE] Re: Re: RNG question

 

>
> What you have here is a possible maybe. The problem is you are only one
person and what your are noticing is well know urban "legend?".

As was posted a while back when this issue came up, if a person is
absolutely convinced that certain machines are "gaffed" (or have a "weekend
shortpay" switch), then the first thing they need to do is to stop playing them
and go someplace else.

By the way, the link that was posted in this thread about the guy who was
pirating IGT machines didn't seem to move the ball one way or the other
about the likelihood the people are getting into the actual programming of the
machines to make the payouts worse for the player. (I would contend it
might be just as profitable for somebody to "gaff" a machine for higher
payouts, keep track of where the machines wind up, and play them to death until
the casinos pull them.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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