[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:
>
> Mick wrote: It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.
>
>
> I agree with your characterization about what was reported on the WoV site. Are you willing to accept at face value that what was reported was actually true and with no material omissions?
>
> I'm not. It would make no sense to me for the casino to do that.
>
> There are very likely some key parts of the story that haven't been posted yet. You could be right and some court might decide that how the Revel has behaved is improper. And it also could be right that the reason lawsuits like that haven't been filed yet is because the facts that have been reported in the player press aren't completely accurate.
>
> I really don't know exactly what happened. But I'm not inclined to believe everything at face value that is reported on sites such as WoV or vpFREE. Many players who post here have their own agendas and aren't always responsible in what they say. Some are. Some aren't.
>
> Just like on this site, many of us believe certain posters generally have interesting and informative things to say. Others we believe post things that are generally worthless --- or even worse! My list of such people will be a little different from yours, but there will be a lot of overlap between them.
>
> On the WoV site, I haven't participated enough there to know who is believable and who is not. Have you?
>
> Bob
>
No, I'm not a member of WoV, Bob. The first time I was over there was a few days back when someone posted to you that the Revel thread at WoV had players complaining of being disqualified. As for who I can vouch for there I'm just like you. I don't know any of those characters, except....the only one I can say for sure is solid is fivespot, but he's not working the Revel promotion. He suggested that Revel put signs on the Ultimate X's declaring them unavailable for the promotion. I'm still waiting for a report of Revel doing this. If they haven't disqualified the game then that can only mean they are setting a trap for card manipulators, letting them play with no intention of rebating them.

We are all dealing with incomplete information. On WoV, Pokeraddict is the gaming writer for Google News. He's the one who put the story up on uspoker.com. I thought his story was fair. His repeated attempts to contact Revel execs has fallen on deaf ears. Since Revel won't respond, all we have is the players side to read. It is also reported that the NY Times writer who wrote about the Revel promo in June is being asked to do a follow up story.

The Revel fiasco is an entertaining story to watch on these lonely Montana nights. It's either that or I can go to the bar and get smashed. In which case, being all hung over, I won't go out and work tomorrow. So I lose the money I threw over the bar, plus my $250 in expectation for tomorrow.

I'm having fun with the story, Bob. As for all my speculation in the posts, I'm just doing what I've done all my life....dead reckoning. I've dead reckoned right....and I've dead reckoned wrong. If I come up wrong on any of my speculation, then I will stand corrected. Take care.

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[vpFREE] Perfect lawsuit evidence... (Revel)

 


As I read about the Revel promotion and controversy, it comes to my mind that if someone really wants to do a promotion like this and risk tens of thousands of dollars, first they should go to the slot club with a tape recorder in their pocket (or your google glasses or soon to be on the market I-watch or equivalent), and say "Mr. So and so, how does this promotion work?". And "can I play the $25 Double diamond slot machine (or whatever...)?". And "are any machines excluded?". And go to the high roller area and ask the slot attendant, "can I play this such and such machine for the such and such promotion?". Sit down and play (and maybe mention it into your recorder and definitely write the info such as machine number etc in your gaming diary). If you are denied Your loss, you have perfect evidence for a civil lawsuit.....

------

On another note, I'd always be skeptical of doing some sort of promo like this where the loss is repaid in free play, whether one time or over 20 installments, or whatever. Theoretically, it all sounds well and good, but I've often had the sad reality of getting free play, and when I play it through just once, lose part of it. All too often 10-50%, even on a 99.96% positive VP machine. The thing is, as we probably all know, in the short run you aren't too likely to hit a royal or even a quad, and it is those hands that really pull up the average payouts. Yep, you could win as you go for the "loss" promo. But if you end up losing, getting that loss back could be tricky, depending how deep in debt you go. I know, it's a gamble, but for those who really would try to maximize something like this, saying risking a loss of $10k plus or $100k when they didn't win, it could be a costly gamble, even if the Revel pays off its end of the promo. Which of course is why the Revel is willing to offer such a thing. In the long run of the promo, the Revel is probably still going to win money from the aggregate of all its promo-gamblers, and maybe get some of the new customers they want as well.

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[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 

It's pretty standard for a trusted third party to arbitrate a bet, not someone with a vested interest.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:
>
> There really is no question: Revel must admit to something that makes no sense whatsoever: to doing what you claim they've done. Having some gaming lawyer confirm via the media something a disgruntled gambler filed, is no more proof than reading what a collection of anonymous posters on WoV opine or create.
>
> BTW, my friend who played in the promo returned home today with an $8300 profit. He loved the place, said it was beautiful with great dining and is very well run, and he was treated with respect at the slot club & by the suits he regularly badgered (thanks to my bugging him) about these alleged claims. He didn't get to test them on the rebate, but who wants to?
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
> Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 5:36 pm
> I already said how the bet would be resolved. If you have another suggestion, go ahead.
>
>
>
> Casinos are very reactionary institutions. We just saw the palms change their bingo promotion after they lost too much money. We see stuff like this every month. The removal of high denom vp was most likely a reaction to the Internet analysis of it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 

There really is no question: Revel must admit to something that makes no sense whatsoever: to doing what you claim they've done. Having some gaming lawyer confirm via the media something a disgruntled gambler filed, is no more proof than reading what a collection of anonymous posters on WoV opine or create.

BTW, my friend who played in the promo returned home today with an $8300 profit. He loved the place, said it was beautiful with great dining and is very well run, and he was treated with respect at the slot club & by the suits he regularly badgered (thanks to my bugging him) about these alleged claims. He didn't get to test them on the rebate, but who wants to?

----- Reply message -----
From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 5:36 pm
I already said how the bet would be resolved. If you have another suggestion, go ahead.

Casinos are very reactionary institutions. We just saw the palms change their bingo promotion after they lost too much money. We see stuff like this every month. The removal of high denom vp was most likely a reaction to the Internet analysis of it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 

I already said how the bet would be resolved. If you have another suggestion, go ahead.

Casinos are very reactionary institutions. We just saw the palms change their bingo promotion after they lost too much money. We see stuff like this every month. The removal of high denom vp was most likely a reaction to the Internet analysis of it.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:
>
> So you're saying the casino "forgot" to remove the hi-limit slots even though they strategically removed the hi-limit vp machines....so as a sure thing/easy money/all-balls fix, they chose to ban those who played them and knowingly accepted the coming lawsuits from all these "on the up & up" anonymous, but now legendary, players?
>
> It sure is baffling that someone wants to bet $1k on hearsay and anonymous postings from the Internet. How will a winner be determined? Seems to me we'd have to wait for the hearing and Revel has to ADMIT to doing that to players with real names.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
> Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 3:38 pm
> It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 



But you just wrote an article taking someone in the same positions word for a strategy going on that I don't think was actually going on. That means you will put information out there that supports the casino but not symmetric information on the other side which supports players. It's simply not consistent. I know you left plausible deniability in the article but you could have equally well written an article with both sides with plenty of plausible deniability for every angle.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:
>
> Mick wrote: It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.
>
>
> I agree with your characterization about what was reported on the WoV site. Are you willing to accept at face value that what was reported was actually true and with no material omissions?
>
> I'm not. It would make no sense to me for the casino to do that.
>
> There are very likely some key parts of the story that haven't been posted yet. You could be right and some court might decide that how the Revel has behaved is improper. And it also could be right that the reason lawsuits like that haven't been filed yet is because the facts that have been reported in the player press aren't completely accurate.
>
> I really don't know exactly what happened. But I'm not inclined to believe everything at face value that is reported on sites such as WoV or vpFREE. Many players who post here have their own agendas and aren't always responsible in what they say. Some are. Some aren't.
>
> Just like on this site, many of us believe certain posters generally have interesting and informative things to say. Others we believe post things that are generally worthless --- or even worse! My list of such people will be a little different from yours, but there will be a lot of overlap between them.
>
> On the WoV site, I haven't participated enough there to know who is believable and who is not. Have you?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 

So you're saying the casino "forgot" to remove the hi-limit slots even though they strategically removed the hi-limit vp machines....so as a sure thing/easy money/all-balls fix, they chose to ban those who played them and knowingly accepted the coming lawsuits from all these "on the up & up" anonymous, but now legendary, players?

It sure is baffling that someone wants to bet $1k on hearsay and anonymous postings from the Internet. How will a winner be determined? Seems to me we'd have to wait for the hearing and Revel has to ADMIT to doing that to players with real names.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 3:38 pm
It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 

Mick wrote: It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.

I agree with your characterization about what was reported on the WoV site. Are you willing to accept at face value that what was reported was actually true and with no material omissions?

I'm not. It would make no sense to me for the casino to do that.

There are very likely some key parts of the story that haven't been posted yet. You could be right and some court might decide that how the Revel has behaved is improper. And it also could be right that the reason lawsuits like that haven't been filed yet is because the facts that have been reported in the player press aren't completely accurate.

I really don't know exactly what happened. But I'm not inclined to believe everything at face value that is reported on sites such as WoV or vpFREE. Many players who post here have their own agendas and aren't always responsible in what they say. Some are. Some aren't.

Just like on this site, many of us believe certain posters generally have interesting and informative things to say. Others we believe post things that are generally worthless --- or even worse! My list of such people will be a little different from yours, but there will be a lot of overlap between them.

On the WoV site, I haven't participated enough there to know who is believable and who is not. Have you?

Bob

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[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:
>
> People playing big slots were banned for playing big slots. No reason was given but all they did is play big. Your characterization is false.
>
>
It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.

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[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

 

I've got no dog in this "fight", vpplayer88, so I'm willing to accept your claim that some players were innocently excluded from the Revel promo, until such time as hard data to the contrary comes to light.

But, frankly, what I will note is that of what I've read, it's clear to me that at least some players were legitimately bumped, having been observed engaging in the Ult-X "vulnerability" to hide wins.

As to others who may have been inappropriately netted, if these exist on any number, I'm stunned by their discretion in not speaking out of turn. In past circumstances, even where a player intends to seek a legal remedy, they can be usually counted on to be sufficiently forthcoming with general details of their indignation, even while observing appropriate discretion, such that one readily gets that someone was wronged. in this case, I haven't seen zip except out of the one player who came forth with vague details of his and his buddy's circumstances that, with modest insight, strongly smacks of the Ult-X scam in operation.

As I said, I'm a largely disinterested party. I write merely to suggest why someone who's perused the public discussion might have doubts that "innocents" are involved.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Because that's not what happened. People playing big slots were banned for playing big slots. No reason was given but all they did is play big. Your characterization is false.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@..." <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
> >
> > OK we've heard from all sides now, so why don't we just wait and see what happens. Maybe these anonymous gamblers with "pending lawsuits" who supposedly were told out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever: "too bad fellas....you lost, you played 100% by the rules, but it's Revel's decision not to give you the rebate" will eventually battle this out in public so we can all see what's going on.
> >
> > ----- Reply message -----
> > From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@>
> > To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
> > Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:30 pm
> > Put your money where your mouth is. I know you are wrong, lets make a bet. We can escrow the money to a trusted source sonce you dont know me.I know several of the legitimate players that were removed, and they aren't talking to the press because of developing lawsuits.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, I know it's a rumor, but many people are saying you are consulting for the revel on this promo. Can you go on the record and officially deny this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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