Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

The incentive to write it off is more of an accounting issue. I am
assuming they carry monies owed on winning tickets as a liability, at
some point, you want to get these off the books. Eventually you have
to acknowledge the person owed is not going to claim the funds, and
record it as a profit.

60 days is much too short a time period for this argument though, 18
months to 3 years is more like it. The 60 days is obviously an
attempt to cash-in on people who are not diligent about collecting.

On Feb 3, 2008 10:09 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru <jbqueru@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's possible that extending the validity of the tickets could
> increase the storage requirements by a proportional amount (and the
> processing time might grow by more than that). Going from 2 months to
> a year could increase the stress on their system by a factor of 6 or
> more and they might not have that kind of margin. Not knowing more
> about their system, the possibility can't be ruled out.
>
> JBQ
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2008 7:29 PM, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Are you seriously claiming that the cost of keeping a few bits in a
> database
> > forever is significant compared to, oh, a free beer?
> >
> > Cogno
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Jean-Baptiste Queru
> > Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:23 PM
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist
> >
> > While 60 days might be shorter than what most people would consider
> > reasonable, there are still a few aspects to consider:
> >
> > -it can't stay open forever, because accounting rules would force the
> > casino to keep the debt on the books forever.
> >
> > -in addition to the financial rules, keeping such tickets open also
> > forces them to keep all the relevant ticket data in "live" computers,
> > as opposed to being able to archive it.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I think that the casino's rules are abusive and I
> > honestly think that 15 months would be a reasonable deadline to
> > collect winnings, but on the other hand I disagree that the casino
> > incurs no costs while keeping the ticket payable.
> >
> > JBQ
> >
> > On Feb 3, 2008 5:20 PM, Mac McClellan <mac_mcclellan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Name a business that we let keep money they are holding for you after
> > > 60
> > > > days if you don't claim it.
> > > >
> > > > Cogno
> > > >
> > > > ---Not exactly money but what about drycleaners, TV repair shops,
> etc?
> > > >
> > > > Scot
> > >
> > > Hey Scot -- Maybe I've missed a few posts here, but are you actually
> > > siding with the Casino on this one?
> > >
> > > Let's look at your argument: Drycleaners, TV repair shops, etc. have
> > > actual physical space concerns. You can't just drop off a dozen suits
> > > for dry cleaning, and for $12 each, expect them to be stored for a
> > > year. Ditto a repair shop for TV's or other electronic items. I'd say
> > > the same is true for an automobile left at a repair shop. It would be
> > > fair for a "Storage Fee" to be charged weekly, and once the storage fee
> > > exceeds the value of the item the item becomes property of the shop
> > > owner. That's standard practice most places in the country (mechanic's
> > > lien, etc.)
> > >
> > > Let's be logical here!
> > >
> > > When it comes to storage of MONEY it's altogether different. Are you
> > > saying it's a particular burden for the casino to find a place to store
> > > Michael's $2900? What expenses do you think the casino would incur in
> > > this activity? What imposition has Mike placed on the hapless casino
> > > by forcing them to hold his $2900 for an extra month or two?
> > >
> > > In fact, Michael has loaned the casino $2900 at no interest for several
> > > months. I would personally be very happy if my creditors allowed me to
> > > keep their funds in my savings account for several months and only
> > > expected their principal returned at the end. But that's not good
> > > enough for the Strat, they don't just want the interest free use of the
> > > money for several months, they want it ALL.
> > >
> > > No logic here, just casino greed.
> > >
> > > Mac
> > > www.CasinoCamper.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

On Feb 3, 2008 10:59 PM, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Um...with all due respect...utter nonsense.
>

Why? Please support your statement. Do you have any experience with
a computer system like that?

Regarding 'escheatment' (where unclaimed property is sent to the State):

yes it can be retrieved, in fact I strongly recommend everyone search
their states unclaimed property website, you'd be surprised at what
you find. Type "unclaimed property statename" into google, this
should yield a .gov website.

I just looked and I think there's $25 from Blue Shield waiting for me. :)

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Jean-Baptiste Queru
>
> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 10:09 PM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist
>
> It's possible that extending the validity of the tickets could
> increase the storage requirements by a proportional amount (and the
> processing time might grow by more than that). Going from 2 months to
> a year could increase the stress on their system by a factor of 6 or
> more and they might not have that kind of margin. Not knowing more
> about their system, the possibility can't be ruled out.
>
> JBQ
>
> On Feb 3, 2008 7:29 PM, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Are you seriously claiming that the cost of keeping a few bits in a
> database
> > forever is significant compared to, oh, a free beer?
> >
> > Cogno
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Jean-Baptiste Queru
> > Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:23 PM
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist
> >
> > While 60 days might be shorter than what most people would consider
> > reasonable, there are still a few aspects to consider:
> >
> > -it can't stay open forever, because accounting rules would force the
> > casino to keep the debt on the books forever.
> >
> > -in addition to the financial rules, keeping such tickets open also
> > forces them to keep all the relevant ticket data in "live" computers,
> > as opposed to being able to archive it.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I think that the casino's rules are abusive and I
> > honestly think that 15 months would be a reasonable deadline to
> > collect winnings, but on the other hand I disagree that the casino
> > incurs no costs while keeping the ticket payable.
> >
> > JBQ
> >
> >

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

Um...with all due respect...utter nonsense.

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jean-Baptiste Queru
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 10:09 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

It's possible that extending the validity of the tickets could
increase the storage requirements by a proportional amount (and the
processing time might grow by more than that). Going from 2 months to
a year could increase the stress on their system by a factor of 6 or
more and they might not have that kind of margin. Not knowing more
about their system, the possibility can't be ruled out.

JBQ

On Feb 3, 2008 7:29 PM, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you seriously claiming that the cost of keeping a few bits in a
database
> forever is significant compared to, oh, a free beer?
>
> Cogno
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Jean-Baptiste Queru
> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:23 PM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist
>
> While 60 days might be shorter than what most people would consider
> reasonable, there are still a few aspects to consider:
>
> -it can't stay open forever, because accounting rules would force the
> casino to keep the debt on the books forever.
>
> -in addition to the financial rules, keeping such tickets open also
> forces them to keep all the relevant ticket data in "live" computers,
> as opposed to being able to archive it.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think that the casino's rules are abusive and I
> honestly think that 15 months would be a reasonable deadline to
> collect winnings, but on the other hand I disagree that the casino
> incurs no costs while keeping the ticket payable.
>
> JBQ
>
> On Feb 3, 2008 5:20 PM, Mac McClellan <mac_mcclellan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Name a business that we let keep money they are holding for you after
> > 60
> > > days if you don't claim it.
> > >
> > > Cogno
> > >
> > > ---Not exactly money but what about drycleaners, TV repair shops, etc?
> > >
> > > Scot
> >
> > Hey Scot -- Maybe I've missed a few posts here, but are you actually
> > siding with the Casino on this one?
> >
> > Let's look at your argument: Drycleaners, TV repair shops, etc. have
> > actual physical space concerns. You can't just drop off a dozen suits
> > for dry cleaning, and for $12 each, expect them to be stored for a
> > year. Ditto a repair shop for TV's or other electronic items. I'd say
> > the same is true for an automobile left at a repair shop. It would be
> > fair for a "Storage Fee" to be charged weekly, and once the storage fee
> > exceeds the value of the item the item becomes property of the shop
> > owner. That's standard practice most places in the country (mechanic's
> > lien, etc.)
> >
> > Let's be logical here!
> >
> > When it comes to storage of MONEY it's altogether different. Are you
> > saying it's a particular burden for the casino to find a place to store
> > Michael's $2900? What expenses do you think the casino would incur in
> > this activity? What imposition has Mike placed on the hapless casino
> > by forcing them to hold his $2900 for an extra month or two?
> >
> > In fact, Michael has loaned the casino $2900 at no interest for several
> > months. I would personally be very happy if my creditors allowed me to
> > keep their funds in my savings account for several months and only
> > expected their principal returned at the end. But that's not good
> > enough for the Strat, they don't just want the interest free use of the
> > money for several months, they want it ALL.
> >
> > No logic here, just casino greed.
> >
> > Mac
> > www.CasinoCamper.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

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[vpFREE] What the dumbest play you've witnessed that worked?

Upon careful consideration, the worst play I've ever seen was a woman
playing .25 FPDW, dealt 456710 with a flush draw, held the TEN....

And of course, she got a royal. I was sitting next to her, down about
$300 after playing four hours of genuine Perfect Bob Dancer Optimal
Strategy. Being a lucky moron beats being an unlucky smart person ANY
ol' time.

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[vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist


> Now that you have clarified that one point, would you
> care to respond to any of the other comments I made?
>
> To refresh your memory, I said....
>
> Re: Your "$3,000/60 days" argument
> If I didn't agree to the terms, I wouldn't have made the bet.
> If I did agree to the terms, I would have honored them.
> If I failed to honor the terms, I would be S.O.L.
>
> Re: Your argument that the time restriction would be valid
> if it were EXPLICITLY EXPLAINED to the customer BEFORE
> the wager was placed and accepted
> I'm not as sure as you are that sports books do not inform
> customers of their policies before processing wagers.
>
> Re: Your questioning if welshing (and saving three grand) is
> worth the ill will that doing so engenders
> Apparently, Stratosphere thinks it is. But, if I owned a casino,
> I would not.
>
> Maybe you didn't respond because you know I'm right and
> you're wrong? ;-) And, the only thing you could do is point
> out that I misunderstood one sentence? :-) LOL!
>
> Yeah, like I said before, this is FUN!
>
> Curtis
>
Well, in the midst of all your LOLing, and the great fun you seem to
be having, I almost hate to point out that you misread my post YET
AGAIN.

LOL.

I never expressed the idea that casinos "do not inform their
customers"....blah blah. I simply referred to a notice on the
RECEIPT that did not have the force of contract because it was
tendered to the customer AFTER THE CONTRACT WAS AGREED TO, AND ONE
OF THE PARTIES HAD EXECUTED HIS PART OF THE CONTRACT (the bettor had
handed over his money). The question of whether a given sportsbook
does an adequate job of informing its customers is moot; I'm sure
that varies from book to book, but I personally have NEVER been told
face to face that my sports betting ticket had to be cashed within a
certain period of time, and such an EXPLICIT EXPLANATION of a
crucial part of the contract is necessary, in US commercial law, to
make that provision of the contract valid.

Re: what you would or would not have done: an unreasonable clause in
a contract is also void. So is one not spelled out at the time the
contract is made. The 60-day clause fails both tests. You, or anyone
else, are protected from such contract provisions by contract law.
Whether you wish to waive this protection is up to you, HOWEVER,
I'll make a wild surmise that if we moved out of the realm of the
theoretical and into the real world, and you had been shafted for
three actual thousand dollars, you wouldn't be so acquiescent.

Re: if you owned a casino: I would hope that you would have the good
sense to pay the ticket.

Re: "Right and wrong": well, I'm sick of this argument, as I can't
believe that you, or anyone else, could possibly be defending the
casino on this issue. Theft and fraud are, uh, WRONG-- even
PERFECTLY LEGAL theft and fraud, so the legal discussions are
somewhat beside the point.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

It's possible that extending the validity of the tickets could
increase the storage requirements by a proportional amount (and the
processing time might grow by more than that). Going from 2 months to
a year could increase the stress on their system by a factor of 6 or
more and they might not have that kind of margin. Not knowing more
about their system, the possibility can't be ruled out.

JBQ

On Feb 3, 2008 7:29 PM, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you seriously claiming that the cost of keeping a few bits in a database
> forever is significant compared to, oh, a free beer?
>
> Cogno
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Jean-Baptiste Queru
> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:23 PM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist
>
> While 60 days might be shorter than what most people would consider
> reasonable, there are still a few aspects to consider:
>
> -it can't stay open forever, because accounting rules would force the
> casino to keep the debt on the books forever.
>
> -in addition to the financial rules, keeping such tickets open also
> forces them to keep all the relevant ticket data in "live" computers,
> as opposed to being able to archive it.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think that the casino's rules are abusive and I
> honestly think that 15 months would be a reasonable deadline to
> collect winnings, but on the other hand I disagree that the casino
> incurs no costs while keeping the ticket payable.
>
> JBQ
>
> On Feb 3, 2008 5:20 PM, Mac McClellan <mac_mcclellan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Name a business that we let keep money they are holding for you after
> > 60
> > > days if you don't claim it.
> > >
> > > Cogno
> > >
> > > ---Not exactly money but what about drycleaners, TV repair shops, etc?
> > >
> > > Scot
> >
> > Hey Scot -- Maybe I've missed a few posts here, but are you actually
> > siding with the Casino on this one?
> >
> > Let's look at your argument: Drycleaners, TV repair shops, etc. have
> > actual physical space concerns. You can't just drop off a dozen suits
> > for dry cleaning, and for $12 each, expect them to be stored for a
> > year. Ditto a repair shop for TV's or other electronic items. I'd say
> > the same is true for an automobile left at a repair shop. It would be
> > fair for a "Storage Fee" to be charged weekly, and once the storage fee
> > exceeds the value of the item the item becomes property of the shop
> > owner. That's standard practice most places in the country (mechanic's
> > lien, etc.)
> >
> > Let's be logical here!
> >
> > When it comes to storage of MONEY it's altogether different. Are you
> > saying it's a particular burden for the casino to find a place to store
> > Michael's $2900? What expenses do you think the casino would incur in
> > this activity? What imposition has Mike placed on the hapless casino
> > by forcing them to hold his $2900 for an extra month or two?
> >
> > In fact, Michael has loaned the casino $2900 at no interest for several
> > months. I would personally be very happy if my creditors allowed me to
> > keep their funds in my savings account for several months and only
> > expected their principal returned at the end. But that's not good
> > enough for the Strat, they don't just want the interest free use of the
> > money for several months, they want it ALL.
> >
> > No logic here, just casino greed.
> >
> > Mac
> > www.CasinoCamper.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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[vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

I don't think we can make a perfect analogy with a video poker bet to
the Wiz's sports bet since when we're playing vp we're actually in the
casino, and if someone says you have to go to the cashier in a certain
amount of time, it's not a big deal to do so. With a sports bet, it's
possible that the bet was made before the event and the bettor wasn't
even in the casino following the game.
I believe that part of this issue depends on what the distraction was.
For example, what if you hit a royal, got your ticket, walked outside
to call someone and report the big hit, and got mugged (maybe even
went into a coma for 4 months), or had a heart attack (maybe even died
and the ticket was found by the spouse 4 months later). Would that be
a sufficient distraction?
So it may have been the big Absolute Poker scandal that the Wiz was
working on, the home burglary that he had on 11/20/07, or some other
personal tragedy that he chooses not to share with his readers, that
got him distracted. That's why I would cut him some slack.
Or maybe he was even at the end of the year and didn't want to pay any
taxes on the win? ;)

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist



In a message dated 2/3/2008 8:33:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
ramuno@yahoo.com writes:

In most states, if you do not have any activity on your bank account
for 7 years, the bank sends your money to the state as unclaimed

But I think it can be retrieved.

Karen

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent - Eleanor Roosevelt

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

In most states, if you do not have any activity on your bank account
for 7 years, the bank sends your money to the state as unclaimed. I
think that casinos should do the same. After all, a winning bet
is "your money" and not theirs.

A free coupon offer is not yours. It is their money.

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[vpFREE] Re: more re Gold Coast -- I'm even more confused.

Private email to vpFae:

********************************

"lv_nv_realtor" wrote:

> mailers are based on 90 days according to the slot club...so it looks
> like another month before i get the mailer i thought i would...

Yes, the Gold Coast slot club is telling people who
ask, that their mailers are now based on the prior
three months with a one month lag. So February's
mailer is based on your play for October through
December. They say it's not 90 days. It's three
months.

Also this is for Gold Coast, not necessarily the
other three Coasts who seem to be going their
own way for now.

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: The Wizard of Odds: Las Vegas Casino Blacklist

Just for fodder, I had a coupon for a McDonald's free sandwich but it was
expired. They didn't take it. Should they have? Or should grocery stores
accept expired coupons? Should the police accept an expired driver's license
because we say "it's not fair?" Maybe we shouldn't pay late fee's because we
think it's not fair that they give us a mandatory day to "pay?" Maybe "early
bird" discounts are "unfair?" Should the library not charge for overdue
books? I agree, 60 days seems short to collect a sports book wager but what
if the norm was 60 days and the Strat was 1 year. Would anyone say they were
"too lenient" since others only allow 60 days? Just tossing it out there.

Scot

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