[vpFREE] Ohio Gambling Taxes

 

Last June I wrote the following in my blog.  Now I have put changes or questions in [  ].
 

Now that all four new casinos in Ohio are open for business, gamblers there may not know some of the tax implications they will have to deal with.  It is a good news/bad news situation.  The good news is that as of January 1, 2013, Ohio residents got a new state tax break they could not enjoy in the past, that is they can now deduct gambling losses from gambling wins just like they can do on their federal return.  [That good news didn't last long – they repealed this law and made it retroactive to January 1 – no deductions for state tax returns!]

However, the bad news is that all four cities with casinos have levied a city tax that is definitely not gambler-friendly.  On those city returns, going contrary to the new state rule, you can not deduct your losses from your wins, thus paying city tax on the total gross amount of wins.  [Now city and state are on the same sad page.]

I have had a hard time finding complete and accurate information on the tax withholding situation in Ohio casinos and whether the city tax is withheld for both city residents and non-residents.  Here is the list with the city tax rates and preliminary information on the withholding.  I will revise and post here if I find out anything is different.  [Is all of this still correct?]

Columbus: 2.5% applies to both residents and non-residents

 Cleveland: 2% applies only to residents

 Cincinnati: 2.1% applies to both residents and non-residents

 Toledo: 2.25% applies to both residents and non-residents, with a $2500 exemption that is claimed by filing a Toledo City tax return.

All casinos must withhold 4% from all W-2G jackpots for state taxes, whether you are a resident of Ohio or not.  If you are not a resident of that state, you usually will have to file a non-resident state return to get back some or all of the tax withheld.  This depends on your state of residency; some border states may have reciprocal agreements that let you count that as a credit on your own state return.   This is the same situation for non-residents who want to get back the withheld city taxes.  In many cases, gamblers might decide to "eat" this loss and avoid the additional paperwork.  And if they pay someone to do their taxes, the fees for filing extra returns might be more that the tax recouped!

Another confusing situation, some (or all?) of the W-2Gs given out in Ohio do not have a special box on the form for local taxes withheld and so they combine the state tax and city tax withheld and put that figure in the "State Tax" box.  I've had reports that some casinos give you a separate "note," breaking down the tax information, or they add that information at the bottom of the W-2G form.  Hopefully the casinos will get updated W-2G forms soon so gamblers will know exactly what taxes are being withheld.  [Has that happened?]

As I have always stressed, what paperwork you get – or don't get – has no bearing on what gambling income you have to report on your income tax returns.  You are required to report ALL gross gambling income and then you can list all losses as deductions if/when that is allowed.  This often is a big problem for recreational gamblers.  Only professional gamblers who file as a business can net out their wins. If you need more information about this subject, my book  Tax Help for Gamblers discusses this in detail.

——————-

I will appreciate any addition input or corrections. 

 
------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
 

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

Thanks for the imput.


To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: der145@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:29:59 -0500
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

My Boyds card score is based on a year, not 3 months.  Maybe its different for locals compared to non-locals.
 
In a message dated 2/11/2014 12:28:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, randi66@embarqmail.com writes:
 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: ken orgera
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:19 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

Simple question that the Gold Coast has not answered for me.  My last trip in Dec. I added 14,000 pts. to my card I am a Sapphire, I played mainly at the GC but other Boyd prop. also 4 times during 2013. in  January I lost 13,000 card points? I have asked via email with no answers? Do you know why?


To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
       
Boys Card Score is based on your coin in for the present month plus the previous 2 months. When the present month ends, you lose the coin in from the first month of the previous 3 months. The problems is, this does not take place immediately at the start of the new month. It takes 1 to 3 days before this happens.



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[vpFREE] Re: How to find out?

 

I go to a local IRS office and ask for a summary of all my reportable income because one year I misplaced some W2-G's and it was a big hassle- had to file an amended return. The only problem is the casinos are not required to submit them until early August so I usually file an extension.
 
Sylvia

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[vpFREE] Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 11 FEB 2014

 

Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 11 FEB 2014

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm

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RE: [vpFREE] Scot Krause's Real Deals - 11 FEB 2014

 

The Rampart promotion was edited incorrectly. It should have read should as
follows:

Celebrating President's Day, Rampart Casino has a $5,000 Presidents' Day
Giveaway on Monday, February 17. Earn 50 base points and receive a chocolate
bar. 100 lucky bars will have $50 in bonus free slot play. Candy bars will
be available from 10 a.m. - 10 p.m. while supplies last, one per person.

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
vpFREE3355
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:01 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Scot Krause's Real Deals - 11 FEB 2014

Scot Krause's Real Deals - 11 FEB 2014

Las Vegas Casino bargains and promotions

http://gamingtoday.com/articles/article/45573-Valentine_s_week_is_here_with_
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or

http://tinyurl.com/oyfrzrs

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discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

<<My Boyd card score is based on a year, not 3 months.  Maybe its different for locals compared to non-locals.>>
 
I vaguely remember from some years back that someone did post that Boyd had different times to hit the tier requirements for locals and non-locals.  I think perhaps non-locals keep their tier status for one year while locals have to renew every 6 months.  Can some non-local verify this?????
 
<<Boys Card Score is based on your coin in for the present month plus the previous 2 months. When the present month ends, you lose the coin in from the first month of the previous 3 months.>
 
I was told this was called a "rolling 6-month."  Once you have played for 6 months straight, that first month "drops off" from your tier score (they call it the Card Score) whether you play that 7th month or not.   If you don't play the same amount each month or skip playing some months – or you don't keep accurate coin-in amounts each time you play, this makes it complicated to figure out how much you need to play the month  your tier card expires to renew it.  It also makes it "impossible" for the clerks at the players club to explain it.
 
I find it easiest to keep track of this online, but as was pointed out, don't try to do it until the 4th or 5th of the month since the Web site  does not always update promptly. 
 
------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
 

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[vpFREE] Taxes -- why I know casino statements are wrong....

 

As per the final paragraph of this post, the best reason NOT to rely on casino win/loss statements is probably that the IRS is going to ignore them in all likelihood.  The best you could probably reasonably hope for is that they can be used to corroborate your contemporaneous gaming diary, as previously described.  I don't even ask the casino for a win-loss statement anymore.

While it is sometimes challenged, a contemporaneous diary that reports wins and losses independently of W2G winnings, using the session method, seems to be the most reliable method of keeping records that can be used to back you up in case of an audit and is likely to be accepted.  It's been a long time since I've been audited (and it was unrelated to gambling), but my experience (and all I had read at the time in tax newsletters, which I used to read regularly back then) was that the first person you meet in the audit will deny your appeal but you can go up a level from there with ease and at no cost except your own time (and still not be in tax court) and get to someone who can negotiate a compromise if they choose to do so -- which is what I went away with, and it was a satisfactory one for me, since it established in writing that the part that I would pay taxes on was only a part I had in the year for which the audit occurred, while the rest of it was not taxable, and that was the part that I would "earn" in the future.  Sometimes a good compromise is good enough, and fighting for more, especially considering the downside risk, may not be worthwhile.

Again, this was long ago, and the appeals process and willingness to compromise may have changed.  A friend of mine who worked for the IRS, now in the private sector, said that their caseloads are evaluated on monetary return for time spent, so that the more money you're fighting over, the more likely they'll be willing to put in some time on your case.  With mine, the amount was relatively small, and therefore there was motivation to wrap it up, since spending a lot of time on a case "goes against the agent" if it doesn't result in proportional taxes paid.  They especially don't want to go to tax court (translate: agent time AND money for the IRS) if they don't think they're going to succeed, as that's the worst-case scenario -- lots of time and money invested with nothing to show for it.  On the other hand, if someone has decided they're going to make an example of xxx (fill in "gamblers" for our concern) that year, they might take a shot at it.

The "contemporaneous diary" doesn't have to be anything magical.  I actually stick a 3x5 card in my pocket and record the key information that has been related here before (so I won't restate it), and just keep the stack of 3x5 cards as my documentation for the year, until I feel safe throwing them away (usually 6 years later).  There's nothing magical about having them in a bound diary of any kind, although there are plenty of such small notebooks available for purchase -- I just prefer not to carry all my old records with me, in case I'd lose them -- if I lose my 3x5's for a day or a trip, I can probably reconstruct them pretty quickly.

I use an accountant for my return, and just send them a table (I don't do Excel or I'd send a spreadsheet) with all the totals, and since the accountant doesn't know that much about gambling taxes, they accept and submit that for me, and I've never had a bit of trouble (yet) and I've been reporting all my gambling income and losses for a couple of decades or more.

Of course, the downside is that full reporting, as required by the law, pretty much wipes out any positive after-tax EV unless you're filing as a professional gambler, and maybe even then. But since this is not a major activity for me I trade off the cost of honest reporting in accordance with the law against the cost of being prosecuted for tax fraud, with its certain taxes, interest and penalties if I'm found to owe, not to mention jail time if they can prove I willingly did not report income I knew I had (although when I see my net after-tax non-profit most years, I sometimes wonder why I'm still playing).

Many here clearly do not report non-W2G income on their taxes, and perhaps they consider the risk of interest and penalties and jail to be insignificant or unimportant -- that's their call (I choose to speed sometimes, and sometimes I get a ticket).  I would guess, if audited, it's likely that reporting no wins other than those that generate a W2G will seem unlikely to be a "true scenario" in the eyes of the IRS.

And please don't mistake for a minute my opinion of the tax law -- while I comply with it, I think it's unfair, absurd, and sometimes worse than that.

--BG
======================


8. Taxes -- why I know casino statements are wrong....
    Date: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:14 pm ((PST))

I keep a contemporary gaming diary (and u should too if you get w2Gs) and carefully do my taxes each year, matching any w2gs I get with my daily diary, totaling my wins, and losses, etc. 

Well a few things turned up this year.
1.  Got a statement for MIsc 1099 for drawings from one casino, and noticed it was several thousand dollars less than my total.  I called them and got a list to see what was going on.  First, they only include winnings over $750.  Even so, they missed two different $750 winnings (so the 1099-Misc is off by at least $1500).

2.  Then as I put my w2s in order, I noticed one dated 4/18/2014 -- very odd, because that date hasn't even happened yet!!  I thought maybe it was for 4/18/2013, but when I checked my gaming diary, I hadn't gotten any w2Gs that date, and also, I was gone from the casino by the time listed.  Using the transaction number, I figured out that it was issued much later than April, and eventually I found it -- 12/18/2013!  Really odd.

Also, I noticed my Harrahs Win/loss statement for Chester/Philadelphia, easy to see because I'd only played one day there, so easy to check.  They had the right amount of W2Gs for the day, but.....Looking at my losses/wins, they have my husband and I winning about $6000 more than we really did.  I think this may be because we were playing together with his card in, but a W2 was in my name because I was seated, so this money may have been counted twice, once for a coin out win for him and once as a W2 win for me.  I don't know, but the difference between Harrahs win/loss statement and the actual win for the day was considerable.

Another thing, when we were audited a few years ago, the iRS sent me a list of all the w2Gs they had supposedly/apparently received, and it was missing a lot of them.  Most of the missing ones seemed to be where I had won two in the same day with the same denomination -- for example $1250 plus $1250 plus $2000 -- they listed only $1250&2000.  I don't know if this was an IRS error or a casino error.  You would think everything would be computerized, but maybe not.  The missing items were not just one or two, but (if I remember rightly) over a dozen.  Odd.  (by the way I included the correct amount in my IRS filings)

So this may be one reason the IRS doesn't just use win/loss statements.  They just aren't accurate.  Also they know that sometimes people play and forget to put cards in, blackjack and craps and other table games aren't accurately tracked, and sometimes couples play together or on each others cards. 






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[vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 11 FEB 2014

 

Bob Dancer's LVA - 11 FEB 2014

18th Annual Blackjack Ball --- Part 1 of 2

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2014/0211.cfm

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

My Boyds card score is based on a year, not 3 months.  Maybe its different for locals compared to non-locals.
 
In a message dated 2/11/2014 12:28:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, randi66@embarqmail.com writes:
 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: ken orgera
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:19 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

Simple question that the Gold Coast has not answered for me.  My last trip in Dec. I added 14,000 pts. to my card I am a Sapphire, I played mainly at the GC but other Boyd prop. also 4 times during 2013. in  January I lost 13,000 card points? I have asked via email with no answers? Do you know why?


To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
       

Boys Card Score is based on your coin in for the present month plus the previous 2 months. When the present month ends, you lose the coin in from the first month of the previous 3 months. The problems is, this does not take place immediately at the start of the new month. It takes 1 to 3 days before this happens.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: ken orgera
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:19 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Points multipliers at Sam's Town

 

Simple question that the Gold Coast has not answered for me.  My last trip in Dec. I added 14,000 pts. to my card I am a Sapphire, I played mainly at the GC but other Boyd prop. also 4 times during 2013. in  January I lost 13,000 card points? I have asked via email with no answers? Do you know why?


To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
       

Boys Card Score is based on your coin in for the present month plus the previous 2 months. When the present month ends, you lose the coin in from the first month of the previous 3 months. The problems is, this does not take place immediately at the start of the new month. It takes 1 to 3 days before this happens.

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[vpFREE] Re: Dotty's Casino Countermeasures

 

 
 

>>I have been losing over the last 3 months, but generating lots of W-2G's to qualify for the weekly jackpot drawings.  I'm not hopeful my mailbox will contain future mailers from Dotty's.
If I could find George Maalouf when he's not in a drunken stupor, I'd tell him I now agree with his desire to shut down all Dotty's!<<
 
I stopped getting anything in the mail from Dotty's a long time ago...probably from a low level of play rather than winning too much....not much of a loss to me- all I was getting was $2/month.  (I find it remarkable that anybody plays at a Dotty's long enough to get lots of W-2Gs.)
 
 
 

 

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RE: [vpFREE] How to find out?

 

<<Did someome post here a couple years ago that there is a way to find out what W2Gs the IRS know about before I do my tax return?>>

 

I just call them every September.

 

Cogno

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