--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> Yea I know you're right Mickey. I really do wish everyone could win though. I hate to think what's makes me a living, costs others money.
>
> I know it's necessary to maintain the biz.
>
> Everything you are saying is true. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
>
I also agree with Mickey, of course, but I think the situation and relationship could be improved upon. Instead of the current large percentage of ploppies making it possible for a very small percent of successful advantage players, I think there could still be plenty of room for the body of ploppies to become more educated and more discriminating, thereby causing the casinos to be more competitive yet still profitable.
I think there could evolve an "optimal" relationship, and we're not even close to it yet.
You may say I'm a dreamer.
[vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
[vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
Yea I know you're right Mickey. I really do wish everyone could win though. I hate to think what's makes me a living, costs others money.
I know it's necessary to maintain the biz.
Everything you are saying is true. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
>
> Frank, we owe the negative EV gamblers of the world a debt of gratitude. If everyone heeded your advice then the last one out of Nevada bring the flag. Casinos could not exist if the masses were not willing to take the worst of it; video poker pros CANNOT EXIST without casinos.
>
> You and I may not consider it entertainment but a lot of people do. There's nothing wrong with that. Let them have their fun. I had to think about this about 8 years ago when my nother and one of my sisters visited me in Las Vegas. I was showing them one of my haunts, the Horsehoe. They bolted for the bartops and played video blackjack. You know, the even money on blackjack sucker game.
>
> What was I supposed to do, tell them not to play? Stand over them and say "No, don't play the hand that way, play it this way. Should I have marched them over to the 4 Queens 10/7 prog. and stand over them and tell them how to play? My mother don't like that kind of stuff. All I would be doing is turning it into work for them, AND ME!! They didn't come to Las Vegas to work. So I left them alone and let them have their fun. Sure they dusted some money off. So what? The only thing I straightened them out on was tipping $5 for a free drink.
>
> There are a lot of professional people on this site that like to take casino vacations. What's wrong with them giving up a FEW tenths to get RFB. Nothing!
>
> Let's don't forget Frank, if not for the negative expectation crowd, you and me would be stacking boxes for a living. Well, maybe not you but that's what I'd be doing.
>
[vpFREE] Re: Gambling With an Edge May 5th
In addition to Max Rubin's interview, I'll be posting a guide to Super-Learning-for VP, in the morning under the 5th of May spot.
www.progressivevp.com
~FK
[vpFREE] Re: XVP: Profile of Steve Friess---Server Repaired
Site is up and running.
http://vegasmavens.com/2011/steve-friess-vegas-journalist-podcaster-provocateur-and-more/
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Maven" <comps_mavin@...> wrote:
>
> I'm having some server problems, so the Steve Friess profile will be unavailable until the site is migrated to a new server, I'll re-post when the server is up and running.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Maven" <comps_mavin@> wrote:
> >
> > Profile of Vegas Journalist and Podcaster Steve Friess. In addition to writing for national publications, such as The New York Times and Newsweek, Steve had the cover story in Newsweek last month "Rich Vegas, Poor Vegas, Steve has interviewed just about every famous or interesting person that has step foot off a plane at McCarran.
> >
> > Steve doesn't shy away from the tough, or awkward, questions, such as asking Rich Wolf an owner of Tao Nightclub, if his clients are ______!
> >
> > http://vegasmavens.com/2011/steve-friess-vegas-journalist-podcaster-provocateur-and-more/
> >
>
[vpFREE] Lake Tunica
You might want to take Tunica off your itinerary for awhile:
http://www.wmctv.com/story/14562118/tunica-county-prepares-for-rising-food-waters
[vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
Frank, we owe the negative EV gamblers of the world a debt of gratitude. If everyone heeded your advice then the last one out of Nevada bring the flag. Casinos could not exist if the masses were not willing to take the worst of it; video poker pros CANNOT EXIST without casinos.
You and I may not consider it entertainment but a lot of people do. There's nothing wrong with that. Let them have their fun. I had to think about this about 8 years ago when my nother and one of my sisters visited me in Las Vegas. I was showing them one of my haunts, the Horsehoe. They bolted for the bartops and played video blackjack. You know, the even money on blackjack sucker game.
What was I supposed to do, tell them not to play? Stand over them and say "No, don't play the hand that way, play it this way. Should I have marched them over to the 4 Queens 10/7 prog. and stand over them and tell them how to play? My mother don't like that kind of stuff. All I would be doing is turning it into work for them, AND ME!! They didn't come to Las Vegas to work. So I left them alone and let them have their fun. Sure they dusted some money off. So what? The only thing I straightened them out on was tipping $5 for a free drink.
There are a lot of professional people on this site that like to take casino vacations. What's wrong with them giving up a FEW tenths to get RFB. Nothing!
Let's don't forget Frank, if not for the negative expectation crowd, you and me would be stacking boxes for a living. Well, maybe not you but that's what I'd be doing.
Re: [vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
Your answer is considerably funnier than mine, but I think the answer is highly dependent on the game, and a bit more complicated to calculate.
The 1/2% edge is on the expected amount that is to be wagered, not on the amount of the starting bankroll, so the probability of winning is not necessarily 99 1/2%. Even if it were 99 1/2%, that would mean a loss every 200 days rather than every 996 days.
The simplest game that I could think of that meets the criteria is a game where a win pays exactly what you wager and the probability of a win is 0.4975. This gives an expectation of 0.4975 x Bet - 0.5025 x Bet = -0.0050 x Bet.
We have to adjust the Martingale to a limited Martingale since we are never allowed to bet more than the lesser of $25,000 or our remaining bankroll. If we always bet what's necessary to win our goal subject to the limits in the previous sentence, we can set up a recursive relationship for the probabilities of the remaining bankroll after each bet, then iterate it a few thousand times. This can be facilitated by an Excel spreadsheet.
We will bet ($1,001,000 - Bankroll) as long as we have at least $976,000, bet $25,000 when our bankroll is between $25,000 and $975,000, and bet our entire bankroll when it is below $25,000. It turns out that our probability of a win of $1000 is about 99.8763%, producing a loss of the bankroll about 1 day in every 808.5 days.
The assumption here is that the $1000 won on most days is spent for living expenses or the other things you mentioned but not added to the bankroll. The calculation would be a bit more involved if we were able to add the $1000 to our bankroll with each win, and would lengthen the expected duration before bankroll loss somewhat.
Frank could have figured this out if he had remembered a trick to add 1 or 2% in bounceback cash to this play. This would make the game positive so he could have used his positive expectancy math to get an answer and then simply subtract out the pseudo-bounceback.
The whole calculation might be considerably more difficult with a video poker game with a 1/2% house edge due to the numerous payoffs. We might also need to consider different strategies with different bankrolls. For example if we started with $1,000,000 and bet $1000, when dealt 'AQJT' J in a Jacks or Better game, we might consider keeping the pair of jacks over the 4-card royal draw, since drawing to the jacks would give us a better probability of reaching or exceeding our goal of $1,001,000. (It would be even more complicated if we were planning on adding winnings to our bankroll for future days! Then, we would likely need to hold the 4-card royal.)
Over the entire range of the bankroll, this would be extremely tough to work out any near-perfect strategy.
________________________________
From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2011 2:44 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
Sounds approximately right. On average with a Martingale, you win $1,000 on 995 days for $995,000, then on the 996th day (black Friday) you lose your original million plus the rake, but you still have $995,000 in previous winnings and the casino gives you a car or house or boat or something plus 10% loss rebate plus of course the super secret top whale "I lost a million in one day" card and free cruises and shrimp cocktails for life. Plus the cocktail waitress or pool boy (your choice) suddenly has a high school crush on you. You got the original million from a cash out house refi which is now under water so you mail in the keys. You write a book called "The Secret World of Martingale Hustlers and How they Beat the Casinos for Millions!!!". Woo Hoo!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[vpFREE] Re: XVP: Profile of Steve Friess---Server Problems
I'm having some server problems, so the Steve Friess profile will be unavailable until the site is migrated to a new server, I'll re-post when the server is up and running.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Maven" <comps_mavin@...> wrote:
>
> Profile of Vegas Journalist and Podcaster Steve Friess. In addition to writing for national publications, such as The New York Times and Newsweek, Steve had the cover story in Newsweek last month "Rich Vegas, Poor Vegas, Steve has interviewed just about every famous or interesting person that has step foot off a plane at McCarran.
>
> Steve doesn't shy away from the tough, or awkward, questions, such as asking Rich Wolf an owner of Tao Nightclub, if his clients are ______!
>
> http://vegasmavens.com/2011/steve-friess-vegas-journalist-podcaster-provocateur-and-more/
>
[vpFREE] LVRJ: Penn National gets nod to take over M Resort
LVRJ: Penn National gets nod to take over M Resort
http://www.lvrj.com/business/penn-national-s-purchase-of-m-resort-recommended-121267729.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/3eoeee7
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/3eoeee7">
http://tinyurl.com/3eoeee7</a>
*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************
[vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
Sounds approximately right. On average with a Martingale, you win $1,000 on 995 days for $995,000, then on the 996th day (black Friday) you lose your original million plus the rake, but you still have $995,000 in previous winnings and the casino gives you a car or house or boat or something plus 10% loss rebate plus of course the super secret top whale "I lost a million in one day" card and free cruises and shrimp cocktails for life. Plus the cocktail waitress or pool boy (your choice) suddenly has a high school crush on you. You got the original million from a cash out house refi which is now under water so you mail in the keys. You write a book called "The Secret World of Martingale Hustlers and How they Beat the Casinos for Millions!!!". Woo Hoo!
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@...> wrote:
>
> You didn't clarify what chance you want there to be of winning the $1000. You seemed to only be concerned with minimizing the chance of losing the $1 million, which makes the answer simple. Maybe the assumption that playing in such a way that maximizes the chance of winning the $1000 before losing the $1 million should be incorporated, in which case a Martingale that starts out at $1000 is probably the ideal approach. The chance of winning is probably close to the ratio of the 2 possible results, 999 out of 1000.
>
> ----- Jeff McDaniel <jmcdaniel@...> wrote:
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> >Four days at home with a nasty spring cold have left me with time to ponder gambling imponderables and gambling fantasies. After you read my question below, you might think the cold has left me one taco short of a combination plate.
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> >
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> > I have a hypothetical question that has probably been asked in various forms over the years. I think it ultimately is mostly or completely a math question. Maybe it is a risk of ruin question or a derivative thereof.
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> >
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> > Assumptions:
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> >
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> > 1. You have a million dollar bankroll.
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> > 2. You can only play negative EV games. For the hypothetical, assume you give the casino a half of one percent edge on every bet you make.
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> > 3. You play games that have a maximum bet of $25,000. You, however, are free to play games with lower limits if you wish.
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> > 4. You play every day with the objective of winning $1,000. You stop for the day as soon as you have won $1,000.
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> > 5. You are willing and able to risk the entire bankroll on any given day to win $1,000.
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> > 6. You play perfect strategy, albeit only on negative EV games.
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> >
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> > Questions:
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> > 1. How many days are you likely able to play before you encounter that fateful (inevitable?) day when you lose your million dollar bankroll?
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> > 2. Are there specific strategies such as betting strategies or bankroll management strategies that you could use to improve your longevity (i.e., putting off the day that you lose your bankroll)?
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> > If I am leaving out any key assumption or not asking the right question, kindly supplement as necessary.
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> > Thanks,
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> > Jeff
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Re: [vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
No mathematical genius am I. I just started to read this threat So forgive me if this info is repetitive redundant and just plain inaccurate. I do play house edge video poker and am losing overall the many years I have played. The "long run" is not a finite length of time so realizing the calculated result of your perfect play may be millions of hands away like the computer did in far less time. The bell curve would suggest many folks will experience the W/L results that were anticipating..but some will not unless they play to infinity and I have no positive proof of that .
Ralph Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: the7thwarrior <Judy@realtor.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 1:53 pm
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
We lose most of our money playing POSTIVE expecation machines.(When including all the benefits of cash back and slot promos)
I just hope we live long enough to even out!
Right now we are about 6 cycles behind in Royals at Palms.
Waiting for that dealt Royal to even things out, and get that positive number.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff McDaniel" <jmcdaniel@> wrote: 1. How many days are you likely able to play before you encounter that fateful (inevitable?) day when you lose your million dollar bankroll?
>
> I'll answer this for myself: an infinite number of days, because in the absence of positive machines I would not play.
>
> Yes you are correct it is a math question and one I'm ill-equipped to answer, since I only know positive expectation math. I'm sure one of our other regulars can answer your questions.
>
> ~FK
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[vpFREE] Re: IGT Headsup Holdem Poker
They are fun for recreation, but the computer I believe bets randomly, so it ir really hard to figure out a statedgy for the game. I won a few times, lost once or twice. Play "normally" and you should do OK.
But it is not a great winnign game.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
>
> Anybody have any luck with these? Sklansky was playing them. I was folding unconnected tens or less from the button, seemed to work.
>
[vpFREE] Re: A Hypothetical Question
We lose most of our money playing POSTIVE expecation machines.(When including all the benefits of cash back and slot promos)
I just hope we live long enough to even out!
Right now we are about 6 cycles behind in Royals at Palms.
Waiting for that dealt Royal to even things out, and get that positive number.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff McDaniel" <jmcdaniel@> wrote: 1. How many days are you likely able to play before you encounter that fateful (inevitable?) day when you lose your million dollar bankroll?
>
> I'll answer this for myself: an infinite number of days, because in the absence of positive machines I would not play.
>
> Yes you are correct it is a math question and one I'm ill-equipped to answer, since I only know positive expectation math. I'm sure one of our other regulars can answer your questions.
>
> ~FK
>