Re: [vpFREE] Re: ultimate x poker

 



While at a high-roller lounge in Las Vegas, I sat down to check the Ultimate machines for multipliers when a guy sits next to me and must have thought I was a tourist. He said he could get a 4-of-a-kind any time he wanted because a buddy of his who was a technician, had shown him a "glitch" in the machines. He said he would be glad to show me how to exploit the glitch. When I said OK, he told me to put some money in the machine. I said "Why don't you just show me with your money on the machine your on now." His reply was that he had won too many times in that casino and didn't want to get a tax form because management would recognize him and he might get banned. He said when I won I could just give him half of the winnings, and if I got a tax form I could take the tax out of his winnings. I told him I only had $7 on me which was not enough to play on a $ 1 machine. I never did tell him I was just there to scan the machines for multipliers.

________________________________
From: seedub49 <seedub49@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:30 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: ultimate x poker


 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote:
>
> Better yet, at Harrah's Rincon I encountered con artists who will offer to 'show you how to play'. I would assume they will say the machine is cold and suggest you leave when some high multipliers exist for the next hand.

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RE: W2Gs - was [vpFREE] DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

Social security is handled a little differently for self-employed vs. employees, but the end result is the same. The employer's portion is not taxed as it is not defined as "income" for tax purposes, but the employee's portion is subject to tax. Self-employed individuals can deduct half of the social security component of their "self employment tax" (which is nothing more than total social security and Medicare payments that would have been made on the earned income had the self-employed person been an employee) from income for tax purposes. Either way, the individual is paying taxes on only his half of the contribution. Actually with the "holiday", the employee's contribution of income is 2% less so the numbers are currently skewed a little in favor of the individual. It's not double-taxation because only (up to) one-half of your social security income can be taxed. In other words, the half of your premiums that wasn't taxed (the employer's contribution) can be taxed upon receipt of your social security income. The inability to deduct payments was in the original legislation in the '30's. I believe the taxation of the annuity payments was a product of the massive tax code changes under Reagan in the 80's. It's not my intent to engage in some philosophical debate about whether taxing half of that income is right or wrong, only reporting data.To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: viajo1964@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:03:34 -0600
Subject: RE: W2Gs - was [vpFREE] DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)






I usually don't get in discussions like this as y'all know more than me….but on this I will as SS is taken out PRE TAX not after taxes….the first part of it being taxed over a certain amount is correct….I don't see how you get double taxation out of it.

Lisa

Your social security, for one, will be taxed and/or reduced if your household income exceeds a certain amount, last I heard it was around 34K a year, when in fact that social security money was already taxed when you paid it in while working. Double taxation doesn't seem all too fair to me.

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[vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

 

Does this predict "smart" casinos will populate their joints with machines that minimize W2's?
1) Single line VP machines that reduce jackpots to $1199.
($1 Pickem comes to mind to some degree).

2) Many more lower denominaiton multi-line machines.

Human nature as it is, would gamblers be interested in paytables such as $1 10/7 JB with a ~$1K royal?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@..." <lfcmja@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "carolm60656" <carolm60656@> wrote:
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > Everyone has different circumstances. As a senior, you have a fixed income, and many senior benefits will vanish with too many W2s.
> >
> >
> > As an example for you, some seniors play a lower denomination and/or J/B and deuces so there is a less chance of accumulating lots of W2s.
>
> Years ago ,Bob Dancer wrote about neighbors who were multi millionaires but only played quarters because they love the game of VP and didn't want to become involved with W-2 G's and the IRS.
> I recently turned 65 and saw my SS benefits drop in spite of the recent cola increase, due to a higher AGI caused by my casino W2G's. As a result, and because of an evaluation of exactly the worth of the extra comps for dollar play, I am thinking of going back to quarter play.
>
> Larry F.
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Advice on learning VP

 

What is "incomplete" with OpVP especially the latest version?

________________________________
From: fivespot <fivespot55@gmail.com>

> (OpVP is ... uh ... incomplete is
>the most tactful word I can think of.)

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[vpFREE] Re: Trump One Card

 

CG wrote:

> Can anyone comment on how Vp players (or just players in general) are rated at Trump Taj in AC? I usually go there a couple of times a year and I still have no idea how they figure out there comps. I asked the girls behind the players club desk if they had documentation which explains this and she said no and not even they know (which I find hard to believe).

Taj comps are similar to those for most of all AC ... they vary depending upon the theo holds set for the machine you play.

For the machines I've played at Taj over the last two years, the comp rate (as a percentage of coin-in) has varied from approx .16%-.25%

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

 

I thank you for that clear info. One last question since you've been directly affected and I haven't been involved in SS income or Medicare yet: If you get $50,000 in W2G's this year and assuming you're a net winner of $10,000, about how much does that affect your Medicare payments?

I know I'm assuming much here, but I do look at players who receive W2G's as having won something after their losses are deducted. At least that's the way it has always been for me. But if a player gets a pile of W2G's and still loses by year's end, I'm guessing that does adversely affect those Medicare premiums, which in turn makes those jackpots not worth hitting. Am I on the right track?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Jan Spornhauer" <janspornhauer@sbcglobal.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
Date: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:55 pm
Rob

What he is talking about is the Medicare portion of SS. Medicare premiums

are adjusted based upon ones AGI. Mine have been impacted over the past 3

years because of significant W2 G's.

J. T.

_____

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

rob.singer1111@yahoo.com

Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:33 PM

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

How do SS payments change when you are getting W2G's? They are not figured

into the formula for determining how much a person receives for their SS

benefit unless you file as a business, ie, professional gambler. Are you

also working?

I know AGI affects people who get W2G's, but I've never heard of that making

a $4000 win translate it into costing them anything net.

____________________

From: "lfcmja@verizon.net <mailto:lfcmja%40verizon.net> "

I recently turned 65 and saw my SS benefits drop in spite of the recent cola

increase, due to a higher AGI caused by my casino W2G's.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re:Social Security is aftertax

 

For example you are paid $1000, social security is currently 5.65%, a deduction of 56.50. Your W-2 (taxable income) is $1000.00. If social security was pre tax you would pay taxes on $943.35.

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[vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for

 


> hey rob how are you doing?  I never have reported
> anything, and haven't been audited yet.  I haven't
> filed a tax return since 1984 and have never been caught.
> They only catch you when you do file!
>

Well, I've deleted your name from this post, but anyone on this list can probably find out who you are and turn you in with that remark (I'm not going to do it). And they get a 10% reward for anything the IRS collects from you!

But this list is full of fine outstanding people who would never try to make a buck at anyone else's expense, so sleep well and let us pay for your public services (you may not like all the services that are provided, but I expect you've driven on an interstate or benefited in some other way) while you brag about income tax evasion.

--BG
===============

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[vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

 

Oh, I suspect they have "caught" you ... and have been figuring your taxes year after year for you with the most adverse means possible. The reason you haven't heard from them is they are finding REFUNDS, which you have been forfeiting by not filing. Hmmm, I wonder how much that might add up to over 27 years? Don't forget to add for legitimate deductions that you could have claimed.

Once you retire and employer withholding ends, the situation could change dramatically unless you have withholding coming from other sources. When they DO find you OWE (based on reportable income), they will be in touch with customary penalties and interest.

This might also start the audit-ball rolling and where that stops nobody knows (up to statute of limitations).

Of course I could be wrong ...

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "GilbertA" <gilrus47@...> wrote:
>
> You may not have reported the W2G's but the IRS has them from the casinos. You may be on thin ice.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <stuckinvegas@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@" <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I do not understand why so many people fear W2G's. The more the better and the more jackpots the better. Isn't that really the name of the game in video poker?
> > >
> > > More concerning to me would be playing for points & slot club status than playing for as many W2G's as possible.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Reply message -----
> > > From: "carolm60656" <karolam@>
> > >
> > > I really like the Horseshoe and probably will be mid diamond by years end. I have to be careful about W-2's. On social security and husband pension and I do not want to have to pay extra for medicare,real estate taxes, etc. And since I am from Illinois, Indiana takes out almost 4 percent tax that I do not see as I am not a professional gambler and cannot file as such. In total I had few 4/kinds and no 4 deuces. Lost about $800 but 2 years ago won a total of $14,000 w2's which put us over the limit for some real estate exemptions.
> > >
> > I haven't filed a W2g forever and I've never been audited because of it. You people worry too much about being audited. Take my route and never report your winnings.
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

 


> I haven't filed a W2g forever and I've never been audited because of it. You people worry too much about being audited. Take my route and never report your winnings.
>
Being audited is not the point. Your criminal activity is the point.

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Re: W2Gs - was [vpFREE] DIAD

 

9b. Re: W2Gs - was [vpFREE] DIAD    (long and
>
> I don't especially care for the inept way the government is
> spending the taxes I'm forced to pay. Some of these monies
> don't even go for what they are earmarked to do in a
> specifically named account. So, I don't feel like
> contributing any more taxes than necessary. Also, as
> mentioned, there are plenty of reasons to watch your income
> if you're retired but not rich. Your social security, for
> one, will be taxed and/or reduced if your household income
> exceeds a certain amount, last I heard it was around 34K a
> year, when in fact that social security money was already
> taxed when you paid it in while working. Double taxation
> doesn't seem all too fair to me.
>
>    

I agree 100% -- and I'm sure there are other laws we don't agree with, or that we don't think are "fair". And I'm sure that we both occasionally choose some of those that we won't obey. We just need to be aware that when we don't obey the law, there may be consequences if we're caught.

I certainly find the tax laws onerous and the spending poorly done and with bad judgment, from my perspective at least. And I get to try to kick out those responsible every election day (for the first time in my life, I am pretty sure I'm going to vote against all the incumbents above the local level), which is the way we are legally allowed to express our displeasure in the U.S.A.

Since tax law violations, especially intentional non-reporting of income, come with some pretty stiff penalties, and since the courts have never found "I don't think it's fair and they aren't spending it wisely" an adequate defense, I'll stick to rolling through stop signs at intersections where I can see a half mile in all directions, and to going thru a red light at 3am on a road where I can't see another car at all; I can afford the penalties for those offenses.

I know I'm in the minority on this list and that most don't pay their taxes in accordance with the law -- and I'm constantly amazed that they are more than happy to admit this!! Playing video poker is a game of skill and chance; so is playing games with the tax laws, so take your chances in accordance with your risk tolerance!

Personally, I'm a believer in the "disaster avoidance" approach -- don't do the things that can result in the most disastrous outcomes, even if those outcomes are not that likely to happen.

--BG
================

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RE: W2Gs - was [vpFREE] DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

 

I usually don't get in discussions like this as y'all know more than me….but on this I will as SS is taken out PRE TAX not after taxes….the first part of it being taxed over a certain amount is correct….I don't see how you get double taxation out of it.

Lisa

Your social security, for one, will be taxed and/or reduced if your household income exceeds a certain amount, last I heard it was around 34K a year, when in fact that social security money was already taxed when you paid it in while working. Double taxation doesn't seem all too fair to me.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

 

Rob

What he is talking about is the Medicare portion of SS. Medicare premiums
are adjusted based upon ones AGI. Mine have been impacted over the past 3
years because of significant W2 G's.


J. T.

_____

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rob.singer1111@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:33 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

How do SS payments change when you are getting W2G's? They are not figured
into the formula for determining how much a person receives for their SS
benefit unless you file as a business, ie, professional gambler. Are you
also working?

I know AGI affects people who get W2G's, but I've never heard of that making
a $4000 win translate it into costing them anything net.

____________________

From: "lfcmja@verizon.net <mailto:lfcmja%40verizon.net> "

I recently turned 65 and saw my SS benefits drop in spite of the recent cola
increase, due to a higher AGI caused by my casino W2G's.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: [vpFREE] VP in PA and WV

 


At Charles Town, WV, the vest VP that you will find will be at best 97% and that will be $5 twenty coins.

When I was at Wheeling, WV, about three years ago, it was similar.

> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> From: cgeorgenc777@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:30:10 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] VP in PA and WV
>
> If there is anyone from the Western PA or West Virginia area, would you know if there are any good video poker machines at the casinos in these areas. Places like The Rivers, The Meadows, Mountaineer, Presque Isle in Erie, Wheeling ISland? Thanks.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)

 

On 2/20/2012 3:32 PM, rob.singer1111@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> How do SS payments change when you are getting W2G's? They are not
> figured into the formula for determining how much a person receives
> for their SS benefit unless you file as a business, ie, professional
> gambler. Are you also working?
>
> I know AGI affects people who get W2G's, but I've never heard of that
> making a $4000 win translate it into costing them anything net.
>
Medicare has been means tested for about three years now, and the extra
Medicare premiums are taken out of one's Social Security benefit. Maybe
you aren't involved with Social Security benefits yet. That could
explain the lack of knowledge about why so many players want to avoid
W-2G's.

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