--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> I'm dying to know the third way. But here's a little trick I used to use on the IGT Vision Series advantage slots. On the machines made before 2000 you could get down in the window and look past the third reel to see the coin in and coin out meters. I used to track those meters to get an idea how strong or weak the payback was. The intelligence came in real handy.
>
> Take the Wild Cherry Pie, the original version where you had to put all 54 cherries in the pie to get a 40 to 200 coin bonus. The top line hit did not get recorded in the coin out meter. So the biggest hits going into that meter was 100 for 1 for three sevens or if you caught the 200 coin bonus after filling the pie.
>
> After 30,000 or so coin in I had a good idea of the payback percentage of that particular machine. If the coin in - coin out meters showed that particular Cherry Pie was only returning 90% then I would only play it if there were just a few cherries to go. But on a machine that showed a 97% return I would play it when it was only half way filled up.
>
>
>
I forgot the big hit for putting 3 wild cherries in the window. But it still works the same.
[vpFREE] Re: machine's
[vpFREE] Re: machine's
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Compare the coin-in and coin-out meters.
>
>
>
I'm dying to know the third way. But here's a little trick I used to use on the IGT Vision Series advantage slots. On the machines made before 2000 you could get down in the window and look past the third reel to see the coin in and coin out meters. I used to track those meters to get an idea how strong or weak the payback was. The intelligence came in real handy.
Take the Wild Cherry Pie, the original version where you had to put all 54 cherries in the pie to get a 40 to 200 coin bonus. The top line hit did not get recorded in the coin out meter. So the biggest hits going into that meter was 100 for 1 for three sevens or if you caught the 200 coin bonus after filling the pie.
After 30,000 or so coin in I had a good idea of the payback percentage of that particular machine. If the coin in - coin out meters showed that particular Cherry Pie was only returning 90% then I would only play it if there were just a few cherries to go. But on a machine that showed a 97% return I would play it when it was only half way filled up.
[vpFREE] Re: machine's
I'm under the impression that those meters are only counting the coins (or credits currently). Consequently, you would also have to track the hand paid jackpots to determine the machine's overall payback.
G'luck all,
Gamb00ler
nightoftheiguana2000 wrote:
> Compare the coin-in and coin-out meters.
[vpFREE] Re: Palms VP Bingo Cards
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote:
>
> I've been trying to come with an average number of hands on 9/6 JoB or 8/5 BP to complete a Bingo card.
>
I made a post on this but it got lost in cyberspace. I'll try again.
This is how I would have to do it on the straight flushes. SF chances at 9/6 Jacks is 9148.37, Bonus Poker is 9360 so no question 9/6 is the better play. I don't know anything about poisson or any of that stuff. I just know how this idiot country boy has to do it.
9/6 Jacks....no strategy shifts....I don't think I would use a strategy shift for a hand I'm gonna hit anyway if I play long enough.
It's obvious that the first cycle is 9148.37.
After that I would multiply 9148.37 times 4 which = 36,593.48. Then I would divide 36,593.48 by 3 which is 12,197.83 (represents the three remaining suits)and that would be the second cycle.
Then I would divide 36,593.48 by 2 which = 18,296.74 and this would be the third cycle.
36,593.48 would be the fourth cycle.
.........9,148.37
........12,197.83
........18,296.74
........36,593.48
TOTAL 76,236.42
[vpFREE] Re: machine's
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@> wrote: The Casino posts it.
>
> Very hot: They tell you, but not intentionally.
>
> The question is how?
>
> ~FK
>
Would someone hurry up and make the right guess. I'm dying to know.
[vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 4 JAN 2011
Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 4 JAN 2011
"Video Poker New Year's Resolutions"
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0104.cfm
<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0104.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0104.cfm</a>
*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************
[vpFREE] Re: Palms bingo cards
I used to mess with quad bingo cards years ago. All I know is simple country boy math. I don't know anything about puson or poison distributing his stuff around or whatever it's called. I never had to make straight flushes. Sounds brutal. This is the way this simple sucker would have to do it. Let me know if I'm wrong in case I ever run into it again.
9/6 Jacks....straight flush chances 9148.37....no strategy shifts. I don't think I would want to make any strategy shifts for a hand I'm gonna hit anyway if I play long enough.
It's pretty obvious that the cycle for the first SF is 9148.37.
Now I'm gonna multiply 9148.37 by 4 (this represents the four suits) which = 36,593.48. Then I'm gonna divide that number by 3 which = 12,198 I'm gonna use 12,198 for the second cycle.
Then I'm gonna gonna divide 36,593.48 by 2 which = 18,296.74 and use that for the third cycle.
Then I'm gonna use 36,593.48 for the fourth cycle.
..........9,148.37
.........12,197.83
.........18,296.74
.........36,593.48
TOTAL..76,236.42
[vpFREE] post-gazette.com: Man accused in casino thefts arrested by federal agents
Man accused in casino thefts arrested by federal agents
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11004/1115414-58.stm
<a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11004/1115414-58.stm">
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11004/1115414-58.stm</a>
[vpFREE] To My Groups
I have no idea why, but, many of my posts go into my own spam folder so, I know that they must be going to yours. Please be sure to see if my posts wind up there :-) if you want to read them...hehe.
Happy New Year Peeps !
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [vpFREE] Palms VP Bingo Cards
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been trying to come with an average number of hands on 9/6 JoB or 8/5 BP to complete a Bingo card. The five hardest spots to fill are a royal flush and a straight flush in all 4 suits. I know the cycle for a RF is about 40k and a SF is about 10k. In the 40k royal cycle you will have an average of 4 SF's but probably not one in each of the 4 suits. My gut feeling is the normal cycle for all 4 suites of SF will be somewhere around 80k to 100k hands. Am I close?
yes, you're close.
obviously it'll take an average of one SF cycle to hit your first SF.
after you've hit your first, 1/4 of your SFs are going to be in the
same suit as the first one. so it'll take on average 1/(1-1/4) = 4/3
SF cycles to hit a second one in a new suit.
after you've hit two, 1/2 of your SFs are going to be in a suit you've
already hit, so it'll take on average 2 SF cycles to hit a third one
in a new suit.
after you've hit three, 3/4 of your SFs are going to be in a suit
you've already hit, so it'll take on average 4 SF cycles to complete
the set.
so, to get all four SFs, it'll take 1 + 4/3 + 2 + 4 ~= 8.33 SF cycles,
or about 75000 hands on average.
as for the average number of hands to fill out a card... you can use
your intuition and figure you'll probably but not certainly have the
royal within 75000 hands, and the quads certainly won't hold you up,
and bump it up to 85000 or so. or you can pull out your poisson
distributions and numerical integration and come up with a figure
of... 85000 or so. either way.
the promo stopped being interesting when they added the specific-suit
straight flushes. it was pretty monstrous on multiline quarters for
the first week.
cheers,
five
Re: [vpFREE] Re: machine's
By the Pay out Charts.
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
--- On Tue, 1/4/11, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: machine's
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 10:35 PM
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote: The Casino posts it.
Very hot: They tell you, but not intentionally.
The question is how?
~FK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[vpFREE] Re: machine's
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote: The Casino posts it.
Very hot: They tell you, but not intentionally.
The question is how?
~FK
[vpFREE] Re: Best Randomness Analogy Contest
In preemptive reply to Harry Porter's super duper post, I'm currently waiting for permission from the admin. Essentially, I'm doing it like presidential campaigns.
I'm not replying, I'm merely announcing that in intend to announce my possible reply later...or something like that.
We're sitting on a powder keg with this thread, and I'm not going to be the one giving off sparks.
~FK
[vpFREE] Re: Best Randomness Analogy Contest
>I would like to start a contest for the best analogy to explain why it's a bad
idea to look for patterns in random events.
Unless you already know all the probabilities involved with 100% certainty (are you sure you know them all?), I don't think it's a bad idea to look for patterns in random events. You just have to be careful with your conclusions. It's like the conclusion that real estate never goes down. That's only true if you filter the data first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorsach_test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasseography
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnMLGkj91Og
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG5e1oaen-M
[vpFREE] Re: machine's
Re: [vpFREE] Re: Best Randomness Analogy Contest
"From immemorial time, and in all races, there has been current, especially
among minds more receptive and thoughtful than the average run, an intuition
persistent and ever-enduring, that there exists somewhere a body of sublime
teaching or doctrine which can be had by those who qualify to receive it by
becoming worthy depositaries of it. These intimations have frequently found
lodgment in legend and myth, and thus have become enshrined or crystallized
in the different religious and philosophical records of the human race.
There is probably no single group of religious and philosophical works which
does not contain some more or less clear record, given either in open
statement or by vague hint, of the existence of this wisdom-teaching. It is
one of the most interesting of literary pursuits to trace out and assemble
together these scattered and usually imperfect records, found everywhere;
and by juxtaposition to discover in them distinct and easily verifiable
proof that they are indeed but fragments of an archaic wisdom common to the
human race. The literary historian, the mythologer, the anthropologist, all
know of the existence of these scattered fragments of archaic thought, but
being utterly unable to make anything coherently sensible of them, they are
usually falsely ascribed to the inventive genius of so-called primitive man
weaving myths and legendary tales about natural phenomena which had occurred
and which, because of the fear and awe their appearance had aroused, were
thought to be the workings of gods and genii, godlings and demons, some
friendly and some inimical to man."
-------Original Message-------
From: Harry Porter
Date: 1/4/2011 11:16:17 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Best Randomness Analogy Contest
Frank wrote:
> The belief that "everything happens for a reason" is a primary
> grief mechanism for humans after tragedy. Removing it can cause
> severe depression and even suicide. Psychologists never challenge
> this belief in depressed patients without first putting into place
> other psychological defense mechanisms to replace it.
>
> I was unaware of that when I wrote the first draft of my book.
> Since I did not grow up with these beliefs, I had no way of knowing
> how their removal could effect the psyche. Here's what happened:
>
> One of my test readers who didn't believe in randomness attempted
> suicide after getting halfway through the original chapter 2 of my
> book. After her recovery she told me that she could not continue
> reading my book because she was afraid that I was right and, if so,
> there was no point to her life. She stated to me in no uncertain
> terms that it was reading my description of randomness that
> prompted her to attempt suicide.
>
> As you can imagine, this isn't the sort of thing I want as
> publicity, even if my only crime was explaining something really
> well. I hope you appreciate that stating it here could cost me
> sales. Even though I haven't taken the Hippocratic oath, I live by
> it.
>
> After this experience I took 2 years away from writing to study
> relevant aspects of psychology, then rewrote chapter 2 to make it
> less confrontational. This substantial delay is one of the reasons
> it took me nine years to finish my book.
>
> The test reader who had this issue was also an addicted
> non-professional gambler. Those types of people do not normally buy
> and read books on gambling. It was only because I hired her as a
> paid test reader that this situation arose. I did not expect to
> find people with even slightly similar beliefs here, since I
> thought vpFREE was exclusively for advantage players.
>
> The doubt you have placed in my mind that someone similar might be
> on vpFREE has necessitated that I cancel the contest and strongly
> discourage any further discussion that could potentially be harmful
> to people. This sort of thing is best left to certified
> psychologists.
>
> I'm sorry I brought it up. It is frustrating to know something so
> completely and have people disagree with you. But this has ceased
> to be about proving who is right and who is wrong, but is now about
> doing no harm.
>
> I cannot in good conscience continue posting in this thread, and I
> encourage no one else to as well. Let's just let sleeping dogs lie.
>
> Think of it like this - if a belief is responsible for making
> someone happy and getting them through their day, does it really
> matter if it's true or not? It's effect on them is good, and that's
> enough.
Frank,
The intensity of your sensitivities certainly appear to vie in strength with
my own ... no small feat. But are you sure it's not sufficient to preface
each related post with some type of advisory or, say, surgeon general's
warning?
Seriously, I don't know the facts obviously, but I'm inclined to believe
that no matter how dark the underlying message of your chapter might be to
some, in this case this individual was prime for a gentle push of some type
.. say, another "9/11" in the news, or finding that her morning's cereal
milk had gone sour.
I'm not really being flippant here at all. In truth, I write this as a
lifelong depression sufferer (bipolar illness, to be precise).
I simply find it ironic that someone who has taken it upon himself to advise
others that there's no meaning to be found in random patterns would infer
such strong casualty to what you wrote and her action.
Ok, I can get that were I personally connected with the incident you
describe that my attitude might be "once bitten, twice shy". But the basic
message re random patterns is very pertinent to adept vp play and bears
airing. (Again, I don't know just how deeply you delved into it's
implications re life at large ... I'd have steered clear of that message, in
the same manner prudent people avoid topics of politics and religion when
addressing general audiences.)
What immediately comes to mind are the "hot and cold" machine adherents.
(That, indeed, is a small ball of wax that is a microcosm for a larger slice
of life philosophy.) Typically, there's nothing that can be said to sway the
perception once it becomes a fixed notion, for the holder's very own
experience has borne the concept out (in their own mind, at least ... hell,
on occasion, shades of this fixation temporarily take root in my own head).
But I'm always hopeful.
One can readily argue that the "hot and cold" notion does no real harm. If
someone switches to another equivalent machine, they should be no worse off.
But I've known people who've been prompted to switch to poorer paytables, or
stop playing despite strong play circumstances, motivated by a sense that
the machine they had been playing had gone "cold". Plus, I've periodically
witnessed people engage in behavior which directly adversely affected others
(in some cases merely a matter of distraction, in others by making good
machines unavailable for use while held in reserve, waiting for them to
warm up").
So, to sum things up, Frank, I don't think it's a topic to be treated as
untouchable; just one that needs to be handled with care. I've no doubt that
you have the temperament for that.
- H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]