[vpFREE] Re: Stations no-mails after Gaming complaint

 

Unless your error rate is VERY high or you are playing with a very low edge (under 0.5%) you will make MORE money playing fast even if you make more mistakes.  If you do something like remove your hands from the buttons to take a second look, your speed will probably go down by 30-50%.  But mistakes just don't cost that much.  Most errors that involve making the slightly wrong play cost well under $.50 on a dollar game.   So in an hour, your errors might add up to $2-$3, but probably not more.  But if the play is worth $25 an hour  (Such as a dollar game with 1000 hph and 0.5% total edge) and you decide to address errors in the manner suggested, you wind up with an actual edge of between $12.50 and $17.50 an hour.  But allowing the mistakes to happen still leaves you with $22 - $23 an hour.   Even a $5 an hour error rate is better than slowing down by 30%.

Optimization is rarely about perfection.  The same kinds of arguments can apply to the strategy one learns as well.  In a great many cases, the time required to look on your phone app to see the right play will cost MORE than the "error" of making the second best play.   Some folks also fatigue a lot more if the strategy they employ is too complex, which is about the surest way to create an unacceptably high error rate and may even cause you to play less despite having an edge, which clearly has a large impact on your daily expected value.


QZ

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Stations no-mails after Gaming complaint

 

I have always been under the impression that casinos do not pay if there is any malfunction of the machine. If she didn't hit the button hard enough ( which I have done many times) and lost her hold then that is also not going to be paid. Now if the hold was solid and then it didn't hold, I don't know.

Pat McCauley

On Jul 11, 2017, at 2:38 PM, Bob Dancer bobdancervp@hotmail.com [vpFREE] <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Stations no-mails after Gaming complaint

 

Video poker is mostly an intensely boring and mind numbing game with the occasional payout that makes it all worthwhile, maybe, but I think as a result many video poker players play too fast, trying to power through the boring stretches. Of course this is where the casino makes its money, from bored players making play mistakes on the boring hands and not even knowing they are doing it. Most players do a fast two step process: hit the hold cards, hit the draw button, repeat. I'd like to suggest there should be more steps involved: hit the hold cards, move your fingers away from the touchscreen or keys (this looks good on camera), pause a split second to visually verify that the cards you want held are held and the cards you want discarded are discarded and everything's nice and stable and if not make corrections, then hit the draw button and repeat. On a good machine this process can actually be done fairly quickly, on a bad machine you may find you have to make too many corrections for bad keys or bad touchscreens, in that case it's probably best to find another machine. I wouldn't rely on a bailout from the casino, if you request this enough times they are going to conclude that you are just angle shooting. In this situation a casino could lose a lot of money to angle shooters.

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Re: [vpFREE] Wolf Video Poker

 

I have lost contact with Jim so I am guessing he is "out of the business."
 
--------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler, QueenOfComps.com
Frugal Vegas blog - http://jscott.lvablog.com/
NEW BOOK - The Frugal Gambler Casino Guide
On Sale at https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/shop/
or online as an eBook.

Anyone know if James Wolf is still supporting his VP software?  His web site http://www.wolfvideopoker.com/ comes up:

500 - Internal server error.

There is a problem with the resource you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed.

 

Thanks,

Dick in FL

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Stations no-mails after Gaming complaint

 

I understand the "it's only $8,000" feeling. Although $8,000 would be big enough for me to pursue (usually --- although maybe not if I felt i was really close already to being 86'd), I wouldn't go to the mat for $200 --- and others might. It depends on your personal circumstances. And there are some who will do it for $5 because "it's the principle of the thing."


That said, the fact that it was $8,000 might have been critical in Station's decision. On a hand where the miskey would have cost $250 or so, the casino might well pay that quickly because keeping customers happy is an important principle and $250 is comparatively small change.


But there is some point (and $8,000 may well exceed that point) where the casino  (or that particular supervisor) has a policy that they are not going to pay these things. It might all sound the same in principle, and it is, but running a large business sometimes results in "cut and dried" rules. We don't know if this was the supervisor making the decision. Or if it is a casino policy.


Were I to take this to court (including, perhaps unfairly, Gaming Control Board as part of the court system), I would point out that bartop buttons are extra sticky because drinks get spilled frequently. And when the slot tech "checked" the button, he likely hit it squarely over and over again. That's not the way people play. Players often use multiple fingers to hit the buttons, kind of like touch typing, and often don't hit the buttons squarely. A "glancing blow" on a semi-sticky button could very easily be at fault and the slot tech's testing wouldn't uncover that. Which is part of the reason slot techs are trained to test the machines that way.


It is also possible that this lady didn't hit the button with enough force to cause it to hold. That might not clearly show up on surveillance video. You would probably see her finger hitting the button, but there's no way to tell what force was used. If the video showed she was having trouble with the same button for some time, that would be telling evidence. But since she doesn't think it's worth her time to pursue, we'll never know. But if this were important money to me, I might well want a jury to decide.



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Posted by: Bob Dancer <BobDancerVP@hotmail.com>
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[vpFREE] Bob Dancer Column - 11 JUL 2017

 

Bob Dancer Column - 11 JUL 2017

Accidental Quadruple Deuces

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/accidental-quadruple-deuces

or

<a href="https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/accidental-quadruple-deuces">
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/accidental-quadruple-deuces</a>

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*************************************************

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[vpFREE] Check out $3M exchange in Las Vegas poker game at center of lawsuit – Las Veg

 

 
Karen

The secret to staying balanced in this world is a
low center of gravity, and a high center of levity
Swami Beyondananda


















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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Stations no-mails after Gaming complaint

 

I had a similar thing happen. I held a pair of queens, but just as I hit the deal button one of them un-held.

The draw filled in the royal.

When they came to pay me, I insisted that I should get only the 5 coins for the pair of queens. They agreed quickly.

(No, this was not at a Stations)

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 3:13 AM, rickdrickd2002@yahoo.com [vpFREE] <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I appreciate all the feedback and constructive suggestions in this thread and will certainly pass them along to her. I will say, however, that she seems quite disinterested in pursuing this further. She is a multimillionaire and the amount in question is "only" $8K. For her I guess that is slumming it! As I said, she was more upset over the way she was treated than she was over the loss of the money. She actually told me that if they had said "we're sorry, ma'am, but casino policy doesn't allow us to pay this", she would have been fine with it. (*I* sure wouldn't have been fine with it, but I'm not a multimillionaire!) She was mostly upset over how rude and hostile they were to her.

I think her most likely course of action at this point is to take her play to Bellagio and the Wynn, where she already plays, and just forget about Red Rock. Why play where you are treated poorly when you can go where you are treated well?

I started this thread mostly to give others a heads-up. When I moved here approximately 15 years ago, Stations was a first-class operation. I remember it being one of the 100 best employers in the U.S. Both players and employees seemed happy. I would never have expected this sort of thing from them. But times have changed and so has Stations.

I suppose it's their right to provide bad customer service to the players and make short-sighted business decisions if they want. It's their business. But it's also the right of the players to play elsewhere if they choose. I posted this so everyone on this group can make an informed choice.

Thank you again and good luck to all,

- Rick D


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Posted by: King Fish <vpkingfish@gmail.com>
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[vpFREE] Scot Krause's Slot Club Spotlight - 11 JUL 2017

 

Scot Krause's Slot Club Spotlight - 11 JUL 2017

San Manuel makes success their casinos' mission

http://www.gamingtoday.com/vegas_style_Casino_Deals/vegas_style_Locals_Scene/article/68704-San_Manuel_makes_success_their_casinos_mission

or

https://goo.gl/231dLE

or

<a href="https://goo.gl/231dLE">
https://goo.gl/231dLE</a>

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[vpFREE] Scot Krause's Reel Deals - 11 JUL 2017

 

Scot Krause's Reel Deals - 11 JUL 2017

"Pan"demonium takes over South Point

http://www.gamingtoday.com/vegas_style_Casino_Deals/vegas_style/article/68703-Pan_demonium_takes_over_South_Point

or

https://goo.gl/btPMim

or

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https://goo.gl/btPMim</a>

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*************************************************

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[vpFREE] Re: Stations no-mails after Gaming complaint

 

I appreciate all the feedback and constructive suggestions in this thread and will certainly pass them along to her. I will say, however, that she seems quite disinterested in pursuing this further. She is a multimillionaire and the amount in question is "only" $8K. For her I guess that is slumming it! As I said, she was more upset over the way she was treated than she was over the loss of the money. She actually told me that if they had said "we're sorry, ma'am, but casino policy doesn't allow us to pay this", she would have been fine with it. (*I* sure wouldn't have been fine with it, but I'm not a multimillionaire!) She was mostly upset over how rude and hostile they were to her.

I think her most likely course of action at this point is to take her play to Bellagio and the Wynn, where she already plays, and just forget about Red Rock. Why play where you are treated poorly when you can go where you are treated well?

I started this thread mostly to give others a heads-up. When I moved here approximately 15 years ago, Stations was a first-class operation. I remember it being one of the 100 best employers in the U.S. Both players and employees seemed happy. I would never have expected this sort of thing from them. But times have changed and so has Stations.

I suppose it's their right to provide bad customer service to the players and make short-sighted business decisions if they want. It's their business. But it's also the right of the players to play elsewhere if they choose. I posted this so everyone on this group can make an informed choice.

Thank you again and good luck to all,

- Rick D

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Posted by: rickdrickd2002@yahoo.com
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