Re: [vpFREE] Re: "Figuring out the Formula" from Bob Dancer's column in CP mag


Another couple of possibilities.

Perhaps speed of play (coin-in/hour) is part of their formula. If you were
playing your machine faster, as seems likely, than "Cody," your play might
seem to be more desirable to the casino. After all, a faster player "should"
lose more per hour, all else being equal.

Maybe the two machines were mistakenly set to different theos. Unlikely, but
certainly possible.

As you say, these things are difficult to figure out. And I wouldn't
completely discount the zip code thing. Even age or marital status could be factors.
Maybe they did a study that showed that older married people lost more money
at Aquarius! This assumes that "Cody" is younger and/or single, of course.
And that you revealed your marital status to the slot club.

One other thing occurs to me. Is Aquarius owned by a company which owns
other casinos? And if so, do you have a history of play at any of them?

Brian

=======================================

In a message dated 2/5/2008 11:22:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bdancer@compdance.com writes:

There has been some speculation about why Cody and I received different
amounts of money, including speculation by people who hadn't read the
original article. None of the explanations rang true to me other than
Dick's catchall "I suspect there are many other possibilities as well."

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: "Figuring out the Formula" from Bob Dancer's column in CP mag

There has been some speculation about why Cody and I received different
amounts of money, including speculation by people who hadn't read the
original article. None of the explanations rang true to me other than
Dick's catchall "I suspect there are many other possibilities as well."

Since some people hadn't seen the article, I asked for and received
permission from the Administrator to post it here. Below is how I
submitted the article. Sometimes it is edited before it is printed, and
if so there may be some differences between what is below and what
actually ran.

Trying to Figure Out The Formula --- Bob Dancer --- Casino Player ---
February 2008

A friend, Cody, accompanied Shirley and me to Laughlin. Shirley and I
each had comped rooms, so Cody used one of them and Shirley and I shared
the other.

While we were there, we checked out the Aquarius. Although I'd walked
the floor a few months earlier, I didn't know what the slot club was or
if they had a first-day promotion. Indeed, they had a nice first-day
sign-up program where if you played $15,000 worth of video poker you
received $100 on your next visit. That alone is a 0.67% "cash back" rate
in addition to 0.2% for the regular cash back.

Although they have some over-100% games for quarters, I didn't want to
spend all day at this casino playing $15,000 coin-in. They had NSU
Deuces Wild (99.73%) for all denominations up through $25, so I
arbitrarily decided to play for $5. With the signup bonus, this was an
okay game so long as we limited our play to $15,000.

Cody is usually a 25¢ or 50¢ player. Playing a $5 game was out of the
question. I offered to subsidize his first $15,000. I would keep the net
win or loss, collect all of the cash back, and he would give me the $100
that he was going to be able to collect on his next visit. He could keep
the free T-shirt that came along with the initial $15,000 worth of play.

The advantage to me was real. I was receiving 99.73% + 0.67% + 0.20% =
100.60% for $30,000 worth of play rather than for just $15,000 of play.
The advantage to Cody was real as well. This much play should put us
both on the mailing list --- perhaps earning future free play, room,
meal, or other offers.

The decision was made based on the factors listed here. In actual fact,
"we" (meaning me) lost $3,000 between us, meaning out net score was only
90% for the $30,000 we played. It's very unusual to lose that much that
fast, but certainly not a record. It's just part of the gambling
experience. It was for this possibility that Cody didn't have the
bankroll to play this game.

After awhile we both started getting mailers from the casino. My mailers
told me I was entitled to $100 of free play a month and Cody's offered
him to $40 a month --- for exactly the same $15,000 play on the same
day. What gives?

If coin-in was same, there must have been something else that triggered
these different amounts of play. The casino marketing team won't tell
you, but trying to figure out what's going on is part of the game.

We looked at zip codes. Cody lives about five miles away from us, in Las
Vegas, while Shirley and I live in Henderson. Insofar as Laughlin is
concerned, whether we lived 90 or 95 miles away should be irrelevant.
Wouldn't you think?

I told Cody that I got offered more because I was better looking and the
casino liked having beautiful people around. Cody naturally responded
that if that were the case, he'd get 10 times the offer as I would. The
truth of the matter was that we don't think this had any bearing on it.
In a similar vein, we didn't believe that because Cody is Asian and I'm
not was part of the formula either.

Cody has Asian heritage, and his last name reflects that. It's possible
that there are different rules for marketing to Asians than Caucasians.
I remember when I played at the MGM Grand, more than one Asian-American
player told me the casino discounted their markers. That is, if they
took out $100,000 in markers, the casino only made them play $90,000.
The stereotype is that Asian gamblers are good customers to the casino.
This didn't appear to be in effect here because Cody received LESS than
me, not more. Our best guess is that it came down to how much we lost
when we played. My records show that I lost $3,000 between us, without
providing the breakdown. It could have been me losing $2,500 and Cody
losing $500, or vice versa. It could have been Cody winning $500 and me
losing $3,500, I suppose, but I think either he or I would have
remembered that.

If this is the primary explanation, the casino is acting foolishly. A
player's score after 600 hands is at least 80% luck. Assuming I'm a more
valuable customer because I lost more the first time is very
short-sighted. In this particular case, Cody played each hand slowly and
we consulted on the plays. Essentially I was playing for both of us and
the difference in our scores is 100% due to luck.

Even though it would be short-sighted for the casino to use the results
of our first 600 hands to base future offers on, many casinos do this.
Each casino has its own decision makers, and sometimes these people
aren't first rate.

While this is our best guess as to why our offers are different, we're
not 100% sure. If we had information from 50 other people who played the
sign up bonus only, likely the pattern would become obvious. But we
don't know 50 other such people.

Whether we're right or wrong on "how come" we got different mailers, the
question then becomes "what are we going to do in the future in order to
continue to receive mailers?" As for me, I intend to continue to play
$15,000 there each month until the $100 bounce back dries up. As I gain
more information I may change my approach, but that's my play as of now.
Figuring out why things happen is often a game of incomplete
information, but sometimes incomplete information is the best
information available. While receiving this $100 bounce back is not
enough by itself to warrant a 180-mile round trip, Shirley and I get
enough other offers from Laughlin that this makes a nice addition ---
assuming the cash can be picked up on the same trip. We'll see.

I wish I could provide more certainty other than "this is what I think
might be happening," but I can't. Truthfully I might be way off on what
it actually was that triggered the different mailers. The best I can do
is explain "this is the way I would attack this problem." If I can teach
you to address these problems like a professional player

would, you'll find yourself making better decisions.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: IRS Audit Experience

Did you file a Schedule C as a professional gambler, and how did you
define "wins" or another way of asking were your total winnings less
than the aggregate of your w2-gs because you did a session tally or
daily tally of win/losses etc? If you have less winnings reported
than total w2-gs, did you attach a reconciliation to your gambling
log?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gimlet1037" <kenroznoy@...> wrote:
>
> I recently was picked for an IRS compliance audit (Las Vegas
office,
> 2006, Form 1040). Big honor, huh?
>
> Among the (many) items the agent has asked to see are gambling
records,
> including my gambling diary, W2-G forms, casino win/loss
statements,
> markers, casino checks, etc.
>
> I have read a lot of general suggestions and interpretations of tax
law
> and regulations here in the past. Has anyone had actual first-hand
IRS
> audit experience that they are willing to share, here or
privately?
> Thanks!
>

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[vpFREE] Mandalay Bay inventory

There are now 4 $100 9/6 multi game slant top machines in high limit.I
can't say that denomination is in my gambling bankroll.

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[vpFREE] Re: Gold Coast Mailers - some real information - finally!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@... wrote:
>
> I again spoke to Jen Yee at the Gold Coast and she also was
confused and had
> to go to upper management to find out what was going on with the
mailers.
> Here is what she said.
>
> (and I take back my previous post, obviously! -- the people at the
GC desk
> do not know what is going on & I was relying on what they said).
>
> She said as of the Feb. mailer, the mailer is based on a 90 day
total.
> Either it is based on your coin in, or your theoretical loss, or
your actual
> loss, whichever provides the highest mailer.
>
> For the B mailer, your 90 day total must be 80000+ coin in,
theoretical or
> actual loss would be $3600. For the C mailer the coin in would be
$45,000+ or
> theoretical or real loss of $2025.
>
> Presumably playing 1 month could still produce some sort of mailer.
>
> If the C mailer is equivalent to the old A mailer, you now have to
increase
> play from $30,000 over 3 month to $45,000.
>
> Ms. Yee said that while she can talk to higher management, the
best thing is
> to write to them and express our concerns.
>
> Write to:
>
> Kerrie Burke
> VP & General Manager
> Gold Coast
> 4000 West Flamingo Rd.,
> Las Vegas, NV 89103-4088
>
> Express the fact that the slight increase in cashback because of
coin in
> versus coin out doesn't match the loss of the mailers and how
important the
> mailers are to you.
>
> Apparently the C mailer gives about $80 in free play, but perhaps
less food
> than the old A mailer. The D mailer would give even less free
play, which
> you would get if you only put through $10,000.
>
>
>
> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
Music.
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?
NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> 48)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Whats the email address. I say we all email all the Boyd scumbags
and find out the real mailer values. All I've heard is a whole
bunch of mumbo jumbo!!

Griffin
>

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[vpFREE] John Grochowski Column - 5 FEB 2008

Timely Tax Advice for Gamblers: "Tax Help for Gamblers"

http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/articles/39612.html

<a href="http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/articles/39612.html">
http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/articles/39612.html</a>

************************************************

This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.

************************************************

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[vpFREE] Re: What's the dumbest play you've witnessed that worked?

That's probably the most important part of pulling the splitting tens
play, to look really wasted. There are others, google "Illustrious 18"
for details.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, The Wild Joker <jokerswild1203@...> wrote:
>
> I dont think he was counting cards. If I remember right, he was
pretty wasted.
>
> Ned C.
> The Wild Joker
>
> b.glazer@... wrote:
> > 1d. Re: What's the dumbest play you've witnessed that
worked?
> > Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 6:12 pm ((PST))
> >
> > The dumbest play I ever saw was in blackjack. I think it was at
the Showboat
> > in Atlantic city.
> > Some guy split faces, everyone at the table groaned, and he pulled
two
> > ace's on top of them.
> >
>
> This actually can be the correct play for a very positive count and
against a dealer 4, 5 or 6, if you are counting cards.
>
> The count per deck, using hi-lo system as per Wong, needs to be +6,
+5, or +4 (or higher) for the 4, 5, or 6, respectively.
>
> If you are keeping a side count of Aces (I always found this
difficult to do, but some reportedly do it easily), there is a more
precise way to determine if the deck is 10- and Ace-heavy enough in
the remaining cards to make this a correct play.
>
> However, if you are otherwise playing what is perceived to be
"correctly", this is a red flag play, inviting the dealer to call out
"splitting tens", and the pit boss then to examine the discards (which
I've seen done) to determine if the deck was very positive when you
made the play. It will be one of your last plays at that casino,
unless you've somehow established an "idiot" image.
>
> As a card counter, there are times when the knowledgeable player
departs from correct strategy as the play with the best EV - and is
subject to criticism from the other players at the table who "know
better".
>
> --BG
>
> ===================
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Video Poker for Winners

Frugal Video Poker is another software program that has most of the features
of VPW (and a few it doesn't have) and is both a tutor and a strategy
generator.
________________
Jean $¢ott
http://queenofcomps.com/

New blog taking the place of
Frugal Fridays. Go to
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/
and click on my photo.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Coast Mailers

This is speculation, but knowledgeable speculation. Their computer
systems are messed up and not working right. They may have given
mailers based on an earlier month because of it, but their system
(except Sam's Town) is based on a single month.

At 08:08 AM 2/5/2008, you wrote:
>misscraps wrote:
>
> > Some of you seem confused. The mailer for Feb. is based on your
> > Dec. play only. The 90 days is to determine your "tier"
> > standing for one of the colored cards, Emerald, Sapphire, etc.
>
>My wife and I were on another continent from end of Nov. 2007
>until mid Jan. 2008. It is safe to assume we didn't play
>in December.
>
>If misscraps is correct, then my and my wife's mailers are mirages.
>Mirages normally appear in hot weather..... not the dead of
>a Las Vegas winter.
>
>I'm going to make the brash assumption that mailers are now
>based upon more than one month's play. Your mileage may vary.
>
>Gamb00ler
>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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[vpFREE] Re: LV TR 1/25-1/29 Long

I enjoyed your trip report very much.

Having lived in Vegas during the "Golden Age" of video poker, and
having continued to live there during its slow destruction by casino
monopolies, I share your sentiment that Vegas VP--and Vegas gambling
in general--pretty much SUCKS. The Strip is now a complete joke--an
overpriced ripoff tourist trap. It's getting pretty bad when you
have to search just to find 8/5 Bonus Poker, and comps are a thing
of the past, for the most part. Death to Harrah's!

It IS true that the loose money floating around is now in live
poker. The 1-2/1-3 NLHE $100 buyin games are pathetically bad--an
ABC player can do quite well here (and against these lobotomized,
drunken baboons, you shouldn't play anything BUT ABC--sooner or
later, someone will donk off all his chips to you; just be patient).
This is even though the casinos rake to pots to a brutal degree
($4/hand at the aforementioned little games, and FIVE bucks at
casinos owned by a certain robber baron monolithic monopolistic
corporation), because the opposition is so very very bad.
Tournaments are not the way to go, because so MUCH equity is torn
out of the prize pools by the greedy casinos. The standard rate of
return for a small 1/2-day tourney is 70-75%; NO ONE can beat that
in the long run.

I have found a modest modus operandi to be prepared to switch back
and forth from the Strip when good poker games abound (Thu-Sun
nights, and Fri-Sat days), to weekday VP opportunities when there
are still multiple point days and promotions available. It's MUCH
harder nowadays to yank money out of Vegas--but it still can be
done. There will inevitably be a contraction of the gaming market as
the fallout from the new Vegas policy of "rip 'em off, and who CARES
if they ever come back" bites 'em in the butt, room vacancy rates
soar, and they need people to come play their 6/5 blackjack and eat
those $14 corned beef sandwiches.

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Re: [vpFREE] LV TR 1/25-1/29 Long



In a message dated 2/5/2008 6:49:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
chandler_re@comcast.net writes:

It ain't all about the Benjamins, I guess.

Thanks for a lively and interesting TR, Chandler and congrats on the big
Royal .. many more to you even though you'd rather beat 'em up at live poker :)

Karen

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent - Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: [vpFREE] Video Poker for Winners

Robert complained about Video Poker for Winners.

If you are having trouble with the software, email the particulars to me
and I will assist you. We will get it working.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

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