Re: [vpFREE] Re: Can't deduct winnings against losses, IS it true??

 

Very helpful ... clarifies that a gaming day may either be defined as a standard calendar day, or as a 24-hour time period consistent with the accounting period of the gaming establishment.

Note, however, that this "rule" is narrowly focused to address casino reporting of player payouts to the IRS.  It doesn't address the method by which players should account for their play when filing.  (As of the date of this rule issuance, Notice 2015-21 still stood as applicable guidance for tax reporting for players.)

The document explains that there was consideration given to making this rule consistent with Notice 2015-21, to facilitate reporting by players under the proposed "safe harbor" rules within that Notice.  However, concerns  surfaced in comments on this Rule and as a consequence "final regulations do not adopt the proposed rules for electronically tracked slot machine play" (i.e. Notice 2015-21)

This should be taken to mean that there are inconsistencies in the reporting by mandated for casinos under this Rule and the guidelines to players contained in the Notice 2015-21 proposals.  For this reason, I'll maintain that there is some audit interpretation risk in filing according to the proposed guidelines in Notice 2015-21 (i.e., until adopted, the guidelines don't serve as a "safe harbor" and are subject to potential challenge during an audit).

Note, again, I'm unable to find anything suggesting that a rule adopting the provisions of Notice 2015-21 has been approved.

(disclaimer:  I'm a professional corporate financial analyst, with an extensive accounting background ... not a certified tax or accounting professional.  All remarks should be taken in that light.)



---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <kentq@...> wrote :

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Can't deduct winnings against losses, IS it true??

 

The final rule clarified what a gaming day can be:


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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Can't deduct winnings against losses, IS it true??

 

I'm embarrassed to say that I wasn't familiar with 2015-21 and that my comments reflected an interpretation under the earlier decided Schollenberg case.

I agree with your interpretation of 2015-21 and appreciate the enlightenment :)

I'll note that a brief review didn't see evidence of proposal 2015--21 being formerly adopted yet.  If not, then if a return is challenged there's no guarantee that the examiner will accept the described tax treatment of winnings/losses.  But you're certainly on better legs than simply winging it.

I'd be interested in seeing additional discussion re 2015-21, particularly when it comes to defining the hours of a "casino day".  Personally, I'd be inclined to let the casino accounting day drive this, since that's what drives my play timing.  However, there's some discussion of midnight being a fixed break.

Since the guidance is restricted to machine play that is computer tracked, defining a gambling day as being the casino accounting day bears a certain amount of consistency.


---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <walterhnri@...> wrote :

You might want to look at IRS Notice 2015-21 – Proposed Safe Harbor Method for Determining a Wagering Gain or Loss from Slot Machine Play.  This document defines a session of play as play during a calendar day on a particular type of game at the same gaming establishment.  I don't believe that a hand pay (that usually requires removal of the player's card from the machine) triggers the end of a "session".  But that is just my opinion.


In a message dated 4/17/2019 10:54:17 AM Central Standard Time, vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:

btw, not to minimize your point about the benefit of session reporting, I'll note that my interpretation of the session rules are such that any transaction that results in the redemption of credits for cash constitutes a session break.  As such, being issued a w2-g with cash payment will require accounting for a session at that point, reducing the opportunity for offsetting "session" losses later in the day.  (I haven't seen this "take" validated elsewhere, but I find it consistent with the logic of session reporting.  You're welcome to take it with less than a grain of salt ;)

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[vpFREE] Re: vpFREE messages before #8000 are lost?

 

gamb00ler wrote:

> I was trying to find my first post to this group and found
> that no message # before 8000 is retrievable.

At one time Yahoo Groups had a space limitation for each
Group. Once a Group went over the limit, they deleted the
oldest messages from the archives.

This happened to the vpFREE archives.

vpFREE Administrator

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[vpFREE] vpFREE messages before #8000 are lost?

 

I was trying to find my first post to this group and found that no message # before 8000 is retrievable.


I'm retired now so too much time to kill....


G'luck all,

Gamb00ler

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