Re: [vpFREE] Re: Retirement & its impact

 

You don't make an 8% return if you wait a year or a 32% return if you wait four years. You do make 8% more the year you do start taking it beyond standard retirement age and every year after that until age 70, but that is not an additional 8% return. Here's why: you are forgoing one to four years of payments entirely when you postpone one to four years


If you retire on time say at 66, and you're entitled to $25,000 per year, when you are 80 you would get $25,000 x 14 years = $350,000. If you wait one year you will get 8% more or $27,000 per year. When you are 80, however, you will only get 13 years (because you gave up the first year entirely) at $27,000 = $351,000. So it takes 14 years just to get back to essentially even by postponing one year or to age 80 before there is any benefit or added return.


Again, if you retire on time say at 66, and you're entitled to $25,000 per year, when you are 80 again you would get $25,000 x 14 years = $350,000. If you wait four years until you are 70 you will get 8% more per year or $33,000 per year. When you are 80, however, you will only get 10 years of payments (because you gave up the first four years entirely) at $33,000 = $330,000. So it will take more than 14 years just to get even. In the 4 year postponement scenario it works out to almost 17 years just to break even or to age 83 before there is any added benefit or added return beyond just break even.


I'm not saying don't postpone, but by no means are you getting an 8% return per year by waiting. Giving up $100,000 in the first four years to get $8,000 per year more after year fours may not be a good deal. In fact, it would be no benefit for those that die around age 83, a negative total return for those that die before age 83, and a positive return only for those that die after age 83.


These simple break even analyses do not consider that present dollars are more valuable than future dollars and conversely that future dollars are worth less than present dollars, which would make postponing even less attractive. Also this does not consider any inflation adjustments you will get on your payments in any scenarios. Also this does not consider spousal benefits, which complicate things even further.


So your life expectancy and your spouses eligibility and life expectancy (assuming you have a spouse) must be factored in and that could make it more complicated than the two simple scenarios above.


ST






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[vpFREE] Re: S.C.O.R.E for video poker

 

Gamb00ler wrote: "To earn the $22.35/hr you need to bet $2941/hr (22.35/.0076) or $2.94/hand at 1K hands/hr."

Right. This is a rating system. The famous Don Schlesinger (has a wiki page) invented it I believe so if you don't like it take it up with him. In the real world of course you can't bet $2.9412... per hand, whether at table games or a machine. However, under the Kelly system, you can always bet less, in fact that's a real good idea, to cover the unknown unknowns. It's a fallacy that you have to always bet the exact optimal Kelly bet, which is a good thing because almost always that is not an allowed bet size. If you'd like you can adjust the S.C.O.R.E. rating to cover allowed bet sizes less than or equal to the optimal Kelly bet, the allowed bet sizes on machines being different than the allowed bet sizes at table games. And your bankroll may actually be several multiples of $10,000. In my mind the way to think of this rating system is that it represents the hourly return assuming what is probably a hypothetical optimum Kelly bet and per $10,000 of bankroll. If your bankroll was $20,000, you'd double it, and so on. If you're not playing 1000 hands per hour on machines or 100 hands per hour on tables or IGT headsup poker, you can make that adjustment as well.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Retirement & its impact

 

Waiting is not for everyone. Certain types of income are exempt, and do not
effect your SS benefit

Consult a trusted knowledgeable financial professional.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 6:47 PM, jaycee5353@aol.com [vpFREE] <
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
> On Feb 15, 2015, at 6:46 AM, bornloser1537@yahoo.com [vpFREE] <
> vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> > ery good advice (IMHO)!
> >
> > I concur. If at all possible, one should delay pulling SS until one is
> 70. Yes! Not all of your eggs in one basket. Diversify, diversify,
> diversify.
> >
> > ETF's and index fun
>
> I'm 73 now and the worst mistake I made was taking my SS at full
> retirement age 65 plus 7 months. My dad died at 73 and my mom lived to be
> 97. My wife had just died at 65 and did not collect a month of SS.
> I continued to work and did not need the money. A bird in the hand choice.
> Never able to earn that 8% on fixed cd's and now they are down to under 2%.
> Wait if you can its a great bet.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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> vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
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> Yahoo Groups Links
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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Retirement & its impact

On Feb 15, 2015, at 6:46 AM, bornloser1537@yahoo.com [vpFREE] <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> ery good advice (IMHO)!
>
> I concur. If at all possible, one should delay pulling SS until one is 70. Yes! Not all of your eggs in one basket. Diversify, diversify, diversify.
>
> ETF's and index fun

I'm 73 now and the worst mistake I made was taking my SS at full retirement age 65 plus 7 months. My dad died at 73 and my mom lived to be 97. My wife had just died at 65 and did not collect a month of SS.
I continued to work and did not need the money. A bird in the hand choice. Never able to earn that 8% on fixed cd's and now they are down to under 2%. Wait if you can its a great bet.

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[vpFREE] Re: S.C.O.R.E for video poker

 

To earn the $22.35/hr you need to bet $2941/hr (22.35/.0076) or $2.94/hand at 1K hands/hr.


G'luck all,
Gamb00ler




nightoftheiguana2000 wrote :

In the last Gambling with an Edge radio show, the S.C.O.R.E. value was mentioned for blackjack. This is supposed to be the hourly win rate assuming a Kelly betsize for a $10,000 bankroll. For video poker this would be:


$10,000 x (Kelly ratio, approx. ev/variance) x hands/hour x ev
this comes out to:

$10,000 x ev^2/variance x hands/hour


For FPDW at 1000 hands/hour:
SCORE=$10,000 x .0076 x .0076 / 25.84 x 1000 = $22.35 per hour
If I use the exact Kelly ratio:
SCORE=$10,000 x (1/2925) x 1000 x .0076 = $25.98 per hour
This could be a way to compare table games to video poker.
It's clearly related to the Sharpe Ratio (ev/sd) which is a standard way to rate investments.



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[vpFREE] Vegas Values Report - 15 FEB 2015

 

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Re: [vpFREE] Retirement & its impact

 

As someone who had the good luck and opportunity to be able to retire early (58), I'd like to throw a couple of cents worth of opinion into the discussion.

You're absolutely right when it comes to health care: it is the most critical factor. If you have a plan that will take you through to Medicare, you are one leg up.

As for Social Security, one never knows when your last payment will be coming, so while you can calculate the theoretical breakeven point, who knows if you'll get there.

The points you made about investments are generally sound, but there is a rather new thought about asset allocation in retirement that runs counter to previous "rules". It is explained rather thoroughly here:

http://www.aaii.com/journal/article/reduce-stock-exposure-in-retirement-or-gradually-increase-it.touch

or more briefly here:

http://time.com/money/2795170/plan-for-the-critical-first-decade-of-retirement/

It makes for worthwhile reading in either case.

Finally, enjoy doing the things you love & like early in retirement, whether it is going to playing with the grandkids, casinos, traveling, cruising, etc. Just as we don't know about that last SS payment, we also don't know how active we're going to be after 5, 10 or 15 (or hopefully 20, 30, 40) years.

It is a time to enjoy, you've earned it!

Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein

________________________________
From: "Glenn Chee TedChee@aol.com [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 9:29 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Retirement & its impact


I've been retired for several years now so I thought I'd share a few observations:

Health care: should be number one for most people. It ought to play a large role in where you live after retirement especially if you have good health care where you are compared to where you want to retire to. Remember to apply for Medicare 3 months before your 65th birthday.

Social Security: most of us hope to have more than SS to look forward to, some will have only SS, & some will be close with a few quarters to go. This is addressed to those with a few quarters to go. If you can honestly justify filing as a pro, this might be a good enough reason to do it to qualify for SS which is also the qualification for Medicare. If you already qualify for SS & don't need the money, consider waiting till 70, because benefits increase 8% a year after your 100% year. If you're married study "file & suspend" & spousal pay options.

Income other than SS: like pensions, investments hopefully you have. But many of us have to continue working. If you have a pension, generally the "buyout" annuity is a bad idea. If you have investments, don't put all your eggs in one basket but also don't have too many baskets. What can substitute for other income in casino towns like LV & Reno are the many ways in which casino points can be used for every day needs ranging from food to pharmacy to car repairs to gift cards for just about every vendor & this is all non-conventional income. Of course there's always the job.

Gotta go to dinner. Time for others to share their thoughts.

Sent from my iPad

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[vpFREE] Re: Retirement & its impact

 

Even though we don't know how long we will live to draw it, it is pretty easy to calculate how long it would take to make up the difference between the age options. Waiting does bring in the longer amount, but it takes several years of that differential to make up for the years of getting zero.

I don't presume that waiting is for everyone. There's something to be said for "a bird in the hand". Unless the system goes broke, and we're just left with bird poop ;-)

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[vpFREE] Re: Retirement & its impact

 

Thanks for some good thoughts for people approaching retirement. I will be 64 in a month and the question of when to start taking Social Security is the most controversial. Nobody seems to agree whether to take it as soon as eligible or wait as you suggest till you are 70. The problem is since we don't know when we will die, its just a big guess or bet on which would be better for each person. I'm thinking of just flipping a coin.


Dave


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[vpFREE] Re: Retirement & its impact

 

Very good advice (IMHO)!

I concur. If at all possible, one should delay pulling SS until one is 70. Yes! Not all of your eggs in one basket. Diversify, diversify, diversify.

ETF's and index funds, skewed toward dividend income, might be the way to go (again, IMHO). Maybe 60% of your investable assets in equities (both domestic (75%) and foreign (25%)). One should take some risk to beat inflation.

And have fun with your gambling. But, keep your head on you shoulders.

..... bl

This is not advice! Just my "take" on things.

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