[vpFREE] Re: Progressive strategy change and variance

 

I simultaneously feel like I'm understanding and not understanding, and I keep coming up with more questions.

Bankroll-wise, I'm probably a bit conservative.  I just estimated based on the ROR page on the Wizard's site and went from there.  I know the benefits and pitfalls of using Kelly (especially from my time as a poker player) but long story short my VP bankroll is around 15k and my usual game is 25c BP/JoB/NSUD.  Sometimes on a multi-play I'll play more (like 10-play 5c for a total bet of $2.50) or with a really good promotion I'll go up to 50c NSUD.  Right now my % advantage due to non-play winnings (freeplay, cashback, drawings) is 1.6%.  I got lucky in some drawings but also I just started playing a few months ago so decent mailers are just now starting to show up.  Feel free to tell me if I'm being too nitty with my bankroll.  That said, I find myself in a situation where I sometimes play progressives so I feel that MCR is relevant.

A quick question about Kelly bankrolls.  From the Wizard's page he says it's advantage/variance, so say you are playing 9/6 JoB and have a 1.5% advantage on top of that due to points.  Then with max-EV it is 0.0104/19.5364 which is bet .05323% of your bankroll.  Going back to my earlier example, let's take 9/6 JoB with an 8000 royal, then use the max-EV 9/6 JoB strategy.  This gives a game with (according to FVP) a return of 101.56% and a variance of 68.07.  Including the 1.5% advantage due to points we have .0306/68.07 which is bet .04495% of your bankroll.  This is counter-intuitive to me.  We use the same strategy on the same game except that when the royal is doubled Kelly says we should bet less of our bankroll.  Why?

Back to the main topic.  I understand where the 976 number comes from and how you can generate strategies based on it.  I'm still not clear on why rakeback should change the strategy.  For example, when I drop the royal to 0 I get the min-royal strategy you came up with and it has 97.9% return.  If you re-add in the value when you do (rarely) hit the royal (which we will say is a standard 800) then you wind up around 99%.  While still a positive game with the 2.1% you add back on, you could do a lot better.  Is the only benefit here a lower variance/risk of ruin/being able to play higher? 

Another question, on the FAQ page it says the MCR strategy is static.  Am I correct when I interpret this to mean that this MCR strategy is the MCR strategy for arbitrary values of the royal?  As an example, if the royal was only 1 or if it was 10000, the MCR strategy is the same.  Obviously at some point the royal would get so large that, assuming an infinite bankroll, you would just go with a max-royal strategy.

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[vpFREE] vpFREE] Re: LV Monthly Tier Benefit Shows

 

Thanx for all the input.  Our 19-year-old granddaughter is coming in on July 30 to stay a few days and I am looking for ideas to keep her busy, especially indoors.  She is on her college cross-country team so she will have to be running every day, hot even in the early morning hours.
 
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Posted by: "Queen of Comps" <queenofcomps@cox.net>
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[vpFREE] Re: Progressive strategy change and variance

 

noti wrote:

MaxEV strategy should only be used if you have a monster bankroll for the gamble (many Kelly bankrolls) and a lot of time for the gamble (can play many N0 cycles). Min-cost-royal strategy should be used whenever you're concerned about the cost of hitting the next royal

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I agree in principal with value of mcr strategy when it comes to any higher risk play.  However, for mosr of my cut and dry play, (ror =< 1%; or equiv b/r > 2 kelly), I find mcr yields inadequate risk reduction to be worth bother with.

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[vpFREE] Re: Progressive strategy change and variance

 

pede1976 writes: "Let me also see if I'm right about when MCR strategy should be used.  Assuming a sufficient bankroll, we'd usually desire to just play standard max-EV strategy, but MCR (or best-shot-royal) would be a better choice in the situation where we are playing a progressive for a finite amount of time."

MaxEV strategy should only be used if you have a monster bankroll for the gamble (many Kelly bankrolls) and a lot of time for the gamble (can play many N0 cycles). Min-cost-royal strategy should be used whenever you're concerned about the cost of hitting the next royal. This of course applies to progressive royals which reset when hit, but also to video poker in general because royal droughts are the biggest problem with video poker, it's the royal droughts that bankrupt people. Minimizing the cost of the royal drought just makes plain common sense.

pede1976 writes: "Your first post with the 9/6 MCR strategy is slightly different from the FAQ, though you both have the 976 number.  Is yours more accurate or just a simpler version to remember (e.g. you put ATs above all 1H, but the FAQ strategy has ATs only above A)? "

I used the wizard's strategy generator with the royal set at 976:

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/calculator/

pede1976 writes: "I don't really understand what the 2.1% has to do with changing the strategy.  Can you explain this in more detail?"

Rakeback reduces the cost of hitting the royal, i.e. it is no longer 976, in the case of 2.1% rakeback the cost is 0, if you use the right strategy. You get min-cost-royal strategy by putting the cost of the royal in the strategy generator instead of what it actually pays. Rakeback is any return you get for playing, could be cashback, freeplay, drawings, mailers, show tickets you monetize, rooms you airbnb, whatever.

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[vpFREE] Re: LV Monthly Tier Benefit Shows

 

Same as usual.

Harrah's - Caveman, Improv, Mac King, Million $ Quartet


Quad - Civillico, Frank Marino, Recycled Percussion


Flamingo - Favorito, Legends


Balleys - Jubilee, Veronic


Paris - Eiffel Tower tiks


Rio - Penn and Teller, X Rocks, MJ live


Linq - High Roller Tiks



BTW, we are in town for the annual Paris/PH/Ballys escorted/100% free cruise pickup weekend (Europe cruise + $200 for hotel nite before + airfare earned based on weekend play).  Last year it was out of NOL. Anyone else here for it?


Dave

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Posted by: slutoo@yahoo.com
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Re: [vpFREE] Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 18 JUL 2014

 

Cannery:  Limit base 5000 points on VP.  (again posted in casino)

LCC/OH/SN:   No not have 2X points Tuesday.  On Tuesdays points may be redeemed for double the normal amount of free slot play.

Gold Coast:  All high limit machines were excluded from point multipliers last month.  Has this changed?



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On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:00 PM, "vpFREE3355 vpfree3355@gmail.com [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 18 JUL 2014

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm

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