[vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
>
A poker player who is consistently winning in a room, but not tipping will eventually get kicked out of the room. The excuse they use to get rid of you won't be that you are not tipping. They'll trump something else up on you. By not tipping you made enemies out of everyone who works in the room.
>

True! True! True!
I wish I had read your post before I just made some other comments elsewhere, because you took the words right out of my head. You've been there, Mickey, you've walked the walk, been there done that, and I know you know EXACTLY what the real world is all about.

Also, as I stated elsewhere, when one is trying to beat poker games, it is better to be someone who people LIKE to gamble with. It is more profitable.

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[vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <viajo1964@...> wrote:
>
> So you are saying by tipping the dealer you get better cards?
>

You could not be further away from understanding what I'm saying.

As a serious full-time poker player and a regular in cardrooms in Los Angeles, toking dealers is a big chunk of change, but it is a way of life. A way of the card room life. So, to make a living playing cards in this environment, one has to hone their skills to not only overcome the opponents, but also to beat the rake or collection, and beat the necessary tokes. Not an easy task! But it can be MUCH more profitable when people like you, than when they don't like you. And the best way to not be liked, is to not toke. You stand out like a sore thumb.

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[vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:
>
> I don't play live poker and I wouldn't give my profits away to them either. No smart, savvy player would ever give away any of their advantage unless they're intimidated into doing so. A strong player exhibits no weaknesses.
>

With all due respect, Rob, you just don't know what you're talking about. I spent my first few decades as an adult, playing poker in Gardena, and if one doesn't toke, not only is one not smart, but one has got to be a freaking idiot. I want to be someone who walks into a card room and people in the game say "hi" and tell me to put my name on the board and get in the game. In fact, the board man puts my initials on the board before I even ask, because they already know what game I want to play, and that people LIKE to play with me. I also "take care" of the boardman, the floorman, the chip girls, the waitresses, AND especially the dealers. (and the porters. And in the old days, the restroom attendants)

If one is a good player, one has a choice. He can walk into the cardroom and have people see him and grumble, or he can have people welcome him into their game and be eager to play with him. Which scenario do you think people are more willing to gamble with me? Which scenario do you think will earn me more action from people holding inferior cards? It may be costly to portray the loose-easy-going image, but it is even COSTLIER to have an image that people don't like.

Not only is it advantageous to have people like you, but if you don't toke dealers, one of these days there is going to be a dispute, maybe a big pot, or an argument with someone who gets tossed from the game. Guess who gets the benefit of the doubt when the floorman comes over to make a decision? Guess whose story he listens to first? MINE, that's whose. And I often slip a $5 chip into his palm as I'm going home. It's just a way of life.

So that's poker. And as a regular video poker player, it may be a little different, but the basics are the same.

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

Just to chime in on another view of tipping in general.
If it was up to me the people in the service industries would be paid a proper wage.
They'd be  canned if the service was sub par.
I'd no longer have to tip.
The people that don't tip will pay more than they do now.
The people that do tip will pay less because as the price goes up then everyone pays their fair share.
The way it is now I pay more to make up for those that don't.
 
I'd even be happier if people were paid properly and tipping was only done for exceptional service, sort of like a Christmas bonus.
I hate the fact that tips (specifically in restaurants) are expected even for average service.
 
Just spouting off. 

Regards

A.P.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: The 14%'er

 

Mickey <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, fivespot <fivespot55@...> wrote:
>>
>> wow, mickey, you know i love you, but... you walk in and kill someone
>> else's play, just because the owner is a vet? that's really rude.
>
> There's a little misunderstanding here, five.  It was a real veterans club, a non-profit. The money they make goes to many charitiable causes, including helping out disabled vets.  In Montana veterans clubs are open to the public.

oh, ok. that makes more sense.

thanks for clearing that up, mickey. :)

cheers,

five

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

I've always wondered how many people who say they advocate tipping really agree with the arguments that non-tippers make, but argue in favor of tipping in order to try to justify conforming instead of doing what they believe to be right when it's unpopular. That's usually why I tip.

----- Chris Homan <auhoman@gmail.com> wrote:
>To continue on the poker analogy and this really applies to most any job

> where wages are tip based. The idea of tipping at a restaurant or poker

> table or anywhere else are typically revolving around the idea that they are

> providing you a service (good/bad/ugly) and you are expected to tip

> accordingly (good/bad/ugly) based on your perceived service. The idea that

> not tipping is frugal and the best thing to do for you as a gambler isn't

> exactly as simple as not tipping means I get more money. If everyone

> followed your advice at a poker table (i understand this likely doesn't

> apply to slot attendants who are non-tip based I assume), then you end up

> with dealers who are making $2/hr which obviously isn't going to last. So in

> return you will end up with the casino having to pay them more to which you

> can damn well be sure isn't going to come out of their bottom line. Thus you

> end up with higher rake (worse game selection potentially in something like

> vp), in order to compensate for the lack of tips. In the end letting

> "everyone else" take the front for the tips isn't frugal its being cheap and

> if everyone followed your footsteps it would be conterproductive. The slot

> attendants etc I understand the not tipping but pure tip based workers

> deserve a tip (probably 10% minimum even on lousy service to be honest, upto

> w/e you feel worthy) because the alternative is 15% higher prices at

> restaurants or 6% instead of 4% rake or 98% payouts instead of 99.7% etc.

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[vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

Bob Bartop wrote:
>
>
> Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?
>
> I'll use a poker analogy. Regular poker players pay A LOT in dealer tokes
> when you count it up at the end of the year. One might say that not "being
> intimidated" into tipping poker dealers is "smart". But let me tell you, in
> the real world, this is not practical. You may save several hundred dollars
> by not tipping, but it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, one way or the
> other. Trust me, this is a given. Thus, it would NOT be smart. We're talking
> about dealing with people, not machines and numbers, and not tipping is a
> big mistake.
>
>
This is all very true, Bob. You just didn't explain to them why, at least for a winning player. A poker player who is consistently winning in a room, but not tipping will eventually get kicked out of the room. The excuse they use to get rid of you won't be that you are not tipping. They'll trump something else up on you. By not tipping you made enemies out of everyone who works in the room.

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

To continue on the poker analogy and this really applies to most any job
where wages are tip based. The idea of tipping at a restaurant or poker
table or anywhere else are typically revolving around the idea that they are
providing you a service (good/bad/ugly) and you are expected to tip
accordingly (good/bad/ugly) based on your perceived service. The idea that
not tipping is frugal and the best thing to do for you as a gambler isn't
exactly as simple as not tipping means I get more money. If everyone
followed your advice at a poker table (i understand this likely doesn't
apply to slot attendants who are non-tip based I assume), then you end up
with dealers who are making $2/hr which obviously isn't going to last. So in
return you will end up with the casino having to pay them more to which you
can damn well be sure isn't going to come out of their bottom line. Thus you
end up with higher rake (worse game selection potentially in something like
vp), in order to compensate for the lack of tips. In the end letting
"everyone else" take the front for the tips isn't frugal its being cheap and
if everyone followed your footsteps it would be conterproductive. The slot
attendants etc I understand the not tipping but pure tip based workers
deserve a tip (probably 10% minimum even on lousy service to be honest, upto
w/e you feel worthy) because the alternative is 15% higher prices at
restaurants or 6% instead of 4% rake or 98% payouts instead of 99.7% etc.

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

I see Valerie..as long as it is as you state"they work hard for their
money". I am sensing here that people are feeling that tipping should be
done no matter what. If someone does as you state they will definitely get a
great tip from me...if they don't, they won't and shouldn't expect one just
because tipping is the norm..that is what I was trying to convey.

Lisa

They work hard for their money, and it's a job based on tips.

Valerie

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

Lisa wrote,
"So you are saying by tipping the dealer you get better cards?
Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?"

Of course in a legitimate game you would not "get better cards" by tipping the dealer. If you play regularly somewhere however (or even if you just plan on spending a day or several days playing in a poker room) - you may find that the dealers can help you:

a) get a seat at the table and game that you want
b) get the seat that you want at that table
c) get you food service promptly
d) help you with special rules that might exist at that club
e) make sure that you have as much time as you need to make your play
f) make things easier all around

Also, your nontipping reputation can spread to floormen and others who can make things easier or not as easy for you as well.
They work hard for their money, and it's a job based on tips.

Valerie

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

So you are saying by tipping the dealer you get better cards?

Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?

I'll use a poker analogy. Regular poker players pay A LOT in dealer tokes
when you count it up at the end of the year. One might say that not "being
intimidated" into tipping poker dealers is "smart". But let me tell you, in
the real world, this is not practical. You may save several hundred dollars
by not tipping, but it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, one way or the
other. Trust me, this is a given. Thus, it would NOT be smart. We're talking
about dealing with people, not machines and numbers, and not tipping is a
big mistake.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

I don't play live poker and I wouldn't give my profits away to them either. No smart, savvy player would ever give away any of their advantage unless they're intimidated into doing so. A strong player exhibits no weaknesses.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Tips
Date: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 5:00 pm
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

>

> Correct. And not tipping on handpays & to the cashier is smart, and shows that you as a person and gambler will not be intimidated into it when these people have no right, or right to expect, any of the money you have in any way.

>

Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?

I'll use a poker analogy. Regular poker players pay A LOT in dealer tokes when you count it up at the end of the year. One might say that not "being intimidated" into tipping poker dealers is "smart". But let me tell you, in the real world, this is not practical. You may save several hundred dollars by not tipping, but it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, one way or the other. Trust me, this is a given. Thus, it would NOT be smart. We're talking about dealing with people, not machines and numbers, and not tipping is a big mistake.

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[vpFREE] Re: Tips

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:
>
> Correct. And not tipping on handpays & to the cashier is smart, and shows that you as a person and gambler will not be intimidated into it when these people have no right, or right to expect, any of the money you have in any way.
>

Is this serious? Or am I missing some sarcasm somewhere?

I'll use a poker analogy. Regular poker players pay A LOT in dealer tokes when you count it up at the end of the year. One might say that not "being intimidated" into tipping poker dealers is "smart". But let me tell you, in the real world, this is not practical. You may save several hundred dollars by not tipping, but it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, one way or the other. Trust me, this is a given. Thus, it would NOT be smart. We're talking about dealing with people, not machines and numbers, and not tipping is a big mistake.

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RE: [vpFREE] Tips

 

Tipping should be a REWARD for good service, not a given. If you don't get
good service, good service being subjective of course, why in the world
should you tip? Interesting how in this day and age if someone has a
different opinion than you, THEY are wrong. Maybe you are the one that is
wrong..or better yet live and let live? Geessshhh...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong.

From: kungalooosh@gmail.com <mailto:kungalooosh%40gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:39:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Tips

Not tipping is not being cheap.

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RE: [vpFREE] Tips

 


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong.


From: kungalooosh@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:39:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Tips

Not tipping is not being cheap.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:11 PM, <TedChee@aol.com> wrote:

> I haven't caught up on all the digests yet but I couldn't help noticing all
> the angst on this topic.
>
> Some wanted to justify why they were being cheap, others why they were
> being considerate (and maybe generous).



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