[vpFREE] Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 13 MAR 2011

 

Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 13 MAR 2011

"Advice for Casinos"

http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=1060

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[vpFREE] Re: Encouraging Casinos to have high meter progressives

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
>
> No matter how you cut it, if $100 goes into the pot and only $95 gets paid out, poker, like sports betting is a negative expectation game.
> Which of course doesn't mean it can't be beaten by the sharpest players.
> Obviously a smaller rake in high limit games and tournaments makes those much, much of a negative expectation.
>

I know we're saying tomato and tomahto here, Mike, but you have an odd way of looking at it.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Encouraging Casinos to have high meter progressives

 

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011, mike wrote:
> No matter how you cut it, if $100 goes into the pot and only $95 gets
> paid out, poker, like sports betting is a negative expectation game.

You are correct as it pertains to the population of poker players as a
whole. But for individual players who can beat the game, like Doyle, they
have positive expectation, as you yourself observe:

> Which of course doesn't mean it can't be beaten by the sharpest players.

"Beat the game" is more or less what "positive expectation" means.

To put this another way, suppose for the sake of discussion that Doyle
could make $200/hour in the absence of a rake.

If the actual rake is $140/hour ($4/hand at 35 hands/hour is in the
ballpark), Doyle still makes $60/hour even if he pays the rake fully by
himself, which he obviously doesn't -- it's spread across all the players.

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[vpFREE] Re: XP: Ideas for Sunday Brunch

 

If margaritas are good substitutes then check out the brunch at Garduno's at the Palms. Fajitas, omelets, waffles all made to order. Good stuff!

Pack
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lorrys67" <lorrys@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All!
> A few years ago I found abuot a great Sunday Brunch at the Pioneer Hotel in Laughlin from this group. It was elegant had escargo and a nice assortment of gourmet items at a decent price. Last year we drove all the way to Laughlin to find it was Discontinued due to cut backs. Instead they had some crummy cheap buffet (yuck!).
>
> Does anyone have any ideas for a nice Sunday Brunch? We will have a car so don't mind a drive to get there.
>
> I don't want to spend $50 a person, maybe around $30. It would be great it they also had bloody mary's or chamgagna included.
>
> Thanks so much!
> Lorry
>

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[vpFREE] RE: Brunch

 

How about $38?

http://www.simonatpalmsplace.com/
Click on Brunch for menu...and you get your bloody Marys..... buffet style!

This is on the agenda for our next trip in April.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: Encouraging Casinos to have high meter progressives

 

No matter how you cut it, if $100 goes into the pot and only $95 gets paid out, poker, like sports betting is a negative expectation game.
Which of course doesn't mean it can't be beaten by the sharpest players.
Obviously a smaller rake in high limit games and tournaments makes those much, much of a negative expectation.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Peter M." <midnight1626@...> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, mike wrote:
> > Being smart players here we can all agree with you. HOWEVER, that is not
> > how casinos look at it. In poker everyone at the table, even Doyle
> > Brunson, is playing at negative expectation games due to the rake.
>
> A smart player would understand how mind-bogglingly wrong your claim about
> poker is. Were you just being sloppy with terminology or do you truly
> not understand how Doyle has positive expectation?
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Casinos Tolerate Teams?

 

I'm assuming the team WILL be back-but not until the game is over 100%. I'm also assuming that the team leaves the second they hit the jackpot-which they will. It is in the casinos interest that Lorrie Local or Debbie Des Moines hit the jackpot because they invariably will, sooner or later, "contribute" most of the jackpot right back. The team will not. Neither will you or I.
The same math applies to individual sharks like us. Rather than waiting for the return of high meter machines (ain't happenin' pardner) I would suggest playing the few FPDW and 10/7 progressives around town. They're ALWAYS positive-though you may think the meters are stuck they're so damn slow!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>
>
> Good point, but you are assuming the team never comes back. If that casino has a healthy lineup of good progressives, they'll be back. And they'll give more action than Debbie.
>
> I understand where you're coming from, though, and I personally wouldn't even want to be part of a team, and I personally don't see why anyone needs to be in a team. If you're bankrolled enough, as you should be, then who gives a darn about variance? I would much rather work alone, and the only reason for working with anyone else would be to share information from scouting. Very few people would I trust to split wins with and share bankroll. It's not worth the headache, in my opinion.
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Can Casinos Profit from Advantage Games? (Was - Casinos Tolerate Teams?)

 

The situation is not whether the casinos can make money from offering pros  good games. It is why should they.
 
We skilled players would all love to get free money and vacations from casinos.
If I owned a casino and I wanted to make money at it, I would not want any members of this forum as customers. There is no profit in any of us for them.
 
The only reason we get as good as we do is because most gamblers are idiots.
 
One of the more successful casinos in Las Vegas is the South Point and they don't offer any machines over 100%. They do, however, have a ton of games that are over 99%.
 
Progressives are great and I would love to see more of them. The casinos that I go to that have good progressives get very busy when the jackpots get high and most of the skilled players run like they were being chased after the jackpot gets hit.
 
As long as they find enough poor players to build up the pot, then the casinos may keep them around, at least until the locals that build up the pots start screaming that they can't get on to the machines when the jackpot is high.  

Regards

A.P.

--- On Sun, 3/13/11, Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Can Casinos Profit from Advantage Games? (Was - Casinos Tolerate Teams?)
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 6:30 PM

 

Maybe the Casino's rationale is that they want the jackpots
to go to the non-pro to encourage more of them to come back.
 
Just like at the Carnival, they want some winners, otherwise
nobody will throw a baseball at the lead bottles to try and
win a pink elephant.
 
One would think a smart Casino would find a way to let
the pros have ther 1%ish edge, and still make money off
of teams and pros.
 
I also think they are super stupid about banning people.
If you are going to 86 someone, throw them a party!
 
Have the pit boss comp him one thing and the Host
comp them another and put their picture on the wall.
 
Give them a T-shirt that says, "I was 86'd at the Wynn"
or whatever.  You could have a lot of fun with this kind
of thing, still keeping the Casino's options open.
 
I thought the days of hiring thugs and cops who were
fired for bullying and dishonesty were over.
 
Hey, let's buy an abandoned Casino and make it
work our way.
 
That's the question of the day:
Can a Casino have advantage games on their
floor and make money off of them?
 
The Corrollary would be:
Can a Casino make more profits with advantage
(full pay - sorry) games than without them?
 
So if it was your Casino and you needed to pay your
staff and put your Children through College...
how would you do it?
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: Can Casinos Profit from Advantage Games? (Was - Casinos Tolerate Teams?)

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@...> wrote:

> I also think they are super stupid about banning people.
> If you are going to 86 someone, throw them a party!
>  
> Have the pit boss comp him one thing and the Host
> comp them another and put their picture on the wall.
>
> Give them a T-shirt that says, "I was 86'd at the Wynn"
> or whatever.  You could have a lot of fun with this kind
> of thing, still keeping the Casino's options open.
>

Heh, that was funny. Kind of interesting too. Something to think about. lol

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[vpFREE] Re: Encouraging Casinos to have high meter progressives

 

DesmondT wrote:
> Would the comparison between progressive VP machines and live poker
> tables be appropriate?
>
> In poker, the money generally flows from bad players to smart
> players and the casino takes a cut (rake).

That might be an apt analogy. The key distinction is that progressives with strong meters are more likely to induce some players to engage in behavior that alienates other players and creates floor management problems. (I'll let you use your imagination for examples of what I'm referring to.)

Given the general attractive prospect of progressives for a casino, I can only imagine it's this factor that discourages a more widespread inventory.

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Re: [vpFREE] Can Casinos Profit from Advantage Games? (Was - Casinos Tolerate Teams?)

I hear the Sahara might be available :-)

On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Hey, let's buy an abandoned Casino and make it
> work our way.
>
> That's the question of the day:
> Can a Casino have advantage games on their
> floor and make money off of them?
>
> The Corrollary would be:
> Can a Casino make more profits with advantage
> (full pay - sorry) games than without them?
>
> So if it was your Casino and you needed to pay your
> staff and put your Children through College...
> how would you do it?
>
>
> Reply to sender<brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20Can%20Casinos%20Profit%20from%20Advantage%20Games%3F%20%20%28Was%20-%20Casinos%20Tolerate%20Teams%3F%29>| Reply
> to group<vpFREE@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Can%20Casinos%20Profit%20from%20Advantage%20Games%3F%20%20%28Was%20-%20Casinos%20Tolerate%20Teams%3F%29>| Reply
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[vpFREE] Can Casinos Profit from Advantage Games? (Was - Casinos Tolerate Teams?)

 

Maybe the Casino's rationale is that they want the jackpots
to go to the non-pro to encourage more of them to come back.
 
Just like at the Carnival, they want some winners, otherwise
nobody will throw a baseball at the lead bottles to try and
win a pink elephant.
 
One would think a smart Casino would find a way to let
the pros have ther 1%ish edge, and still make money off
of teams and pros.
 
I also think they are super stupid about banning people.
If you are going to 86 someone, throw them a party!
 
Have the pit boss comp him one thing and the Host
comp them another and put their picture on the wall.
 
Give them a T-shirt that says, "I was 86'd at the Wynn"
or whatever.  You could have a lot of fun with this kind
of thing, still keeping the Casino's options open.
 
I thought the days of hiring thugs and cops who were
fired for bullying and dishonesty were over.
 
Hey, let's buy an abandoned Casino and make it
work our way.
 
That's the question of the day:
Can a Casino have advantage games on their
floor and make money off of them?
 
The Corrollary would be:
Can a Casino make more profits with advantage
(full pay - sorry) games than without them?
 
So if it was your Casino and you needed to pay your
staff and put your Children through College...
how would you do it?
 

--- On Sun, 3/13/11, bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Casinos Tolerate Teams?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 11:08 AM

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <fred123@...> wrote:
>
> Frank, I believe you've stated, or at least implied, that casinos tolerate or even welcome progressive teams. Seems that teams would hurt the casino bottom line when they remove wins from the casino, while ploppies would typically "recycle" wins.
>
> Frank, or anyone, can you please elaborate?
>
> Fred
>
> PS - Great radio show Frank, and Bob.
>

The large jackpot that is banked, has to eventually go to a player, so it's not the casino's money. The casino still profits on the subsequent action. Teams give a lot of action, when the jackpot is big enough. The casinos don't make anything off a machine that sits idle.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [vpFREE] SAMS TOWN OFFERS

 

I also received the 3 month gold card offer. This time I received a 3 month Silver card offer. My guess is they were really hard up for players in the slow winter months, and now that the weather is getting better they are reverting back to the cheaper offers.

Regards

A.P.

--- On Sun, 3/13/11, nenapapa2001 <nenapapa@aol.com> wrote:

From: nenapapa2001 <nenapapa@aol.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] SAMS TOWN OFFERS
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 2:42 PM

 

HAS ANYONE RECEIVED THEIR OUT OF TOWN OFFERS FROM SAMS TOWN FOR APR. MAY AND JUNE? MINE WAS REDUCED TO 2FREE NIGHTS AND A 10.00 FOOD COUPON THROUGH THE KOSH.PREVIOUS 3 MONTH OFFERS WERE 3 FREE NIGHTS 125.00 FREE PLAY AND A GOLD CARD FOR FOR FOOD. MY PLAY WAS THE SAME AS ALWAYS.ANYONE KNOW WHATS GOING ON?

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Encouraging Casinos to have high meter progressives

 

On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, mike wrote:
> Being smart players here we can all agree with you. HOWEVER, that is not
> how casinos look at it. In poker everyone at the table, even Doyle
> Brunson, is playing at negative expectation games due to the rake.

A smart player would understand how mind-bogglingly wrong your claim about
poker is. Were you just being sloppy with terminology or do you truly
not understand how Doyle has positive expectation?

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[vpFREE] Re: Encouraging Casinos to have high meter progressives

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
>
> Being smart players here we can all agree with you.
> HOWEVER,
> that is not how casinos look at it. In poker everyone at the table, even Doyle Brunson, is playing at negative expectation games due to the rake.
> In progressive VP and Piggy Bank type games sharks like us will ONLY play them when they are over 100%. Casinos simply don't like to feed us. I have been told this by 2 mid level management types who are personal friends. Mostly it is just spite and there is not a thing any of us can do about it-unless we can buy a small casino of our own!
> Take my word for it-the days of Piggy Banking games and high meter progressives have gone the way of the Hacienda's prime rib buffet and they ain't comin' back either.
>

Aside from disagreeing with what you said about poker players playing at "negative expectation games", my point of this thread was asking if perhaps the slot companies could takeover the burden of influencing the casinos to alter their lineups. Look at all they are doing in terms of inventing new games? Ultimate X, Double Super Times Pay, etc., why not talk IGT and Ballys into doing it somehow? They're the geniuses, after all.

Which leads me to another question I was wondering recently. Does Konami, Aristocrat, and others like that make any video poker? If so, I have not seen it. And if not, then why not?

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