Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 17 NOV 2015

 

Bob wrote: "I disagree that the slot manager is trying to prevent customers playing. Most get their bonuses on gross win --- which is coin-in minus coin-out. They WANT players. They NEED players. They just don't want winning players"

I disagree. They need losing and winning players. A casino is made of losing and winning players. A casino with losers only is just a tourist trap and players soon learn to go elsewhere for entertainment. Gamblers know that they can't expect to always walk a winner, but they expect to see that at least somebody has walked a winner, that is interpreted as meaning they could walk a winner. Gamblers are incentivized by perceiving that they could be a winner. Everyone knows the lottery has bad odds, but everyone also knows that at least one person wins. Even street hustlers know that you have to let some customers win sometimes, to attract marks. A slot manager, if they are getting rewarded for gross win, should optimize the gross win and ignore individual details. This is how casinos worked before tracking cards, and they worked quite well, building Reno, Vegas, and A/C. Tracking cards enable casinos to concentrate on individual results, which is a mistake. That someone won last month is almost suredly statistical noise. That someone won last year also incorporates a lot of statistical noise, given most players denial of Nzero. And just because someone did beat you by skill over the past year or several years doesn't mean they will continue to play a winning game if you change up the games on them. The solution for a slot manager who is rewarded for gross win is to optimize the gross win and to leave the individual player analysis to marketing. Individual player analysis is a black art, for every time they get it right, there are many times they get it wrong. Fine for marketing, not so great for day to day operations. Also individual player analysis just introduces another metagame, where players try to game or defeat player tracking with disguises and so forth.

Examples of bad operations:

Kicking out everyone who plays or even sits at a progressive.

Kicking out someone for hitting a progressive.

Kicking out new players who show up for a promotion. A general promotion is intended to attract new players, if you just want to reward your existing players you just give them individual cash or freeplay not available to new players.

Kicking out anyone who hits a royal or handpay.

Kicking out locals.

Kicking out tourists.

Kicking out or favoring specific ethnic or age groups.

Kicking out anyone who ever plays video poker.

Removing higher denomination machines or removing the "high limit" area because someone could or did hit a big jackpot.

Kicking out someone who goes on a "lucky roll", hitting more than the usual amount of quads for example.

Kicking out someone because another gambler said they were an "advantage gambler" or "pro". Is there any possibility a gamber would lie to improve their own odds? If you know a team manager and you ask them to remove one of their players to open up a seat, is there any possibility they would finger a player that actually isn't on their team? Just to improve their own odds? Is it possible that nice little old lady who just wants a seat is actually one of the team players? Sure she comes in everyday to play penny slots and bingo, but maybe she's also moonlighting for the team when situations arise?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___

Posted by: nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10)

.

__,_._,___

Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 17 NOV 2015

 

noti wrote: You have to keep in mind also the division of labor found in casinos. Marketing may be very busy trying to attract more customers while the slot manager is actively trying to prevent customers from playing, particularly high denomination machines, since he is incentivized to reduce payouts, not increase the customer base (which is marketing's job). Casino marketing is almost always in conflict with slot floor management, and vice versa.

________________________________

________________________________

I absolutely agree that marketing and slots are often at odds with each other. In some casinos they are in the same room when upcoming promotions are discussed --- but at many casinos this is not the case.

I disagree that the slot manager is trying to prevent customers playing. Most get their bonuses on gross win --- which is coin-in minus coin-out. They WANT players. They NEED players. They just don't want winning players. Different casinos have different formulas as to whether "double points" and "free meal comps" come out of the slot budget or the marketing budget

Many casinos have very elaborate high limit slot areas --- where they take care of players very well. these areas surely aren't built over the kicking and screaming of slot directors

Bob

.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___

Posted by: Bob Dancer <BobDancerVP@hotmail.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (9)

.

__,_._,___

[POKERHOLICS - Also at Myspace!!] TURBO TURNEY, Saturday, 28 November 2015

 

"TURBO TURNEY" reminder
When
Saturday, 28 November 2015
03:00 PM to 10:00 PM
(GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London
Where
SECAUCUS NJ, 201 951 0823
Notes
please send your request for membership or tourney reservations to dbuda2003@yahoo.com or call 201 951 0823 for more info.... thank you and may the flop be with you DAN
From
POKERHOLICS   Calendar

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)

Doylesroom.com has $4,000,000 in monthly freeroll and tournaments. And when you register, you can receive a 110% SUPER SIGN-UP BONUS on your first deposit up to $550.00.  Click here to register:   http://www.doylesroom.com/?refid=abitlucky

All posts to this group are �2007 the owners. Individuals still retain their own copyright, subject to the above.

.

__,_._,___

Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 17 NOV 2015

 

I just got around to listening to the Nov 17 Gambling with an Edge, which is most excellent by the way.

The debate comes down to "change the games" versus "change the players".

The problem with "change the players" is that players figure ways around whatever the selection mechanisms are and the problem with "change the games" is that they are already too tight and making them tighter just requires more promotions to get players to play them, at some point customers figure out it's better just to take the promotions and play as little as possible, in other words, penny machines, minimum bet, played as slowly as possible.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___

Posted by: nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (8)

.

__,_._,___