Re: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 

Rprosdc wrote:

>I made no statement about math ... in any of the posts in this thread.

Yes, you did, that you didn't explicitly used the words "math,"
"mathematics," or "numbers," etc., or were aware of it,
nothwithstanding, just as you did in the comment to which I replied
below.

>Please don't put words in my virtual mouth. For what it is worth, I agree
>that the play of other individuals at the table, in the long run, has no
>impact on my success. As long as they don't jump into the game mid-shoe.

This is a statement about mathematics. What is your theory about how
players jumping into a shoe in the middle affects the long run value
of the other players? If you don't have one, why do you believe it?
3 anecdotes?

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[vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rprosdc <rprosdc@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for your insults.
>
> Audacious? Do you know the definition of the term? My post was a serious
> comment, based on many years of serious BJ play. I do not think basic
> etiquette
> is "BS", as you so thoughtfully
> characterize it, but if embracing rudeness is a vital component of your
> casino experience, your umbrage is understandable.
>
> Alas, your comments are consistent with a recent trtend on this board ...
> recreational players, no matter their levels of skill or experience are to
> be denigrated ..."ploppies" seems to be the currently favored derisive slur
> ... although in the next breath some who present themselves as "pros" lament
> that not enough ploppies have been plopping .... and thus denying the
> self-appointed elite the opportunity to profit from the sacrifice of the
> uninformed.

Your post seems to be saying that when someone makes a post that is ignorant,demonstrably false, and purely based on selective memory, voodoo and superstition, that it is wrong for someone more knowledgeable to point this out.

I disagree with that point of view.
The point of this board is to spread information or, at the least, not spread false information.

So let me point out that your theory that a new player entering mid-shoe causes bad luck is ignorant, demonstrably false, and purely based on selective memory, voodoo, and superstition.

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[vpFREE] Re: RNG question

 

Just another great example how white collar crime in America receives
little or no punishment. Yet they run a multi billion dollar industry
housing thousands of uneducated individuals for 5-10 years for a car jacking or a little weed.

I feel sorry for the guy too, he got caught hahaha. If you are amoral
like the guy in the article (he could't understand what he'd done wrong) I say go for it! Its surely the American way.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, lasvegaspilgrim@ wrote:
> >
> > Guessing it has been discussed here before, but the following is a new angle, that caught IGT by surprise
> >
> > http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/07/ff_scammingslots/all/1
> >
> > Again, this won't be an issue in most regulated casinos, but in other more loosely regulated areas (gee like cruise ships and Indian casinos) player beware!!!
> >
>
>
>
> Wow, what an article! I couldn't help but feel sorry for the guy.
>
> I just hope that someday if I do something in California that violates some foreign protocol, that I don't find myself on a one-way trip to Uzbekistan.
>
> But back to my question, I guess this gives me a better idea of how it can be done. Thanks for the article!
>

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[vpFREE] Re: RNG question

 

Great article and more inspiration for high IQed humans with low moral fiber. In Amerika there is little punishment for white collar crime.

The dude should try stand up comedy "I did'nt know I was phyc

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, lasvegaspilgrim@... wrote:
>
> Guessing it has been discussed here before, but the following is a new angle, that caught IGT by surprise
>
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/07/ff_scammingslots/all/1
>
> Again, this won't be an issue in most regulated casinos, but in other more loosely regulated areas (gee like cruise ships and Indian casinos) player beware!!!
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@>
> > > >
> > > > Yes, once the machines arrive in foreign countries, on cruise ships, or at Indian casinos, they can be altered to perform in any way desired. I've played IGT machines all over the world with 110%/130% etc. stunning paytables that take your $$ faster than Washington politicians rattling off a litany of BS when looking into the cameras. Similar to online casinos where there's no verifiable regulations, when playing at these venues you should be prepared to expect anything.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I tend to believe what you just said, but I would like to hear from a tech-savvy IGT kinda guy who could explain exactly how that could be done. In a layman's terms, since I am a little slow on stuff like that.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Or maybe you could explain it to me, Rob, if you know how it might be done tech-wise. Or someone here. How does an IGT machine get changed like that? If this has been discussed before, please direct me to a thread. Thanks, would appreciate it.
> >
>

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: [vpFREE_Chicago] Rivers Casino

 

Thanks, I already went to the ledgaming people and what you say I pretty
accurate. They have a second site ledgames.com where you can play every game
on these machines.

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
st.tropez97
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:03 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: [vpFREE_Chicago] Rivers Casino

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "pyiddy"
<pyiddy@...> wrote:
>
> Just got back. What a zoo!! Best appears to be
> $1/$2/$5/$10/$25 single line 9-6DDB. Also 15-9 pNSUD.
> The pNSUD also on $1 Multi Strike, 5 line
> Multi-Strike and Multi-Strike STP.
>
> Note: Does anybody know what Multi-Strike Big Pick is?

I can't find much info about Multi-Strike Big Pick online, but I've seen
this game on Multi-Strike Deluxe machines in casinos.

It appears to be a version of Multi-Strike that has a mystery multiplier
whenever there's a win on the top hand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: [vpFREE_Chicago] Rivers Casino

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pyiddy" <pyiddy@...> wrote:
>
> Just got back. What a zoo!! Best appears to be
> $1/$2/$5/$10/$25 single line 9-6DDB. Also 15-9 pNSUD.
> The pNSUD also on $1 Multi Strike, 5 line
> Multi-Strike and Multi-Strike STP.
>
> Note: Does anybody know what Multi-Strike Big Pick is?

I can't find much info about Multi-Strike Big Pick online, but I've seen this game on Multi-Strike Deluxe machines in casinos.

It appears to be a version of Multi-Strike that has a mystery multiplier whenever there's a win on the top hand.

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[vpFREE] Re: RNG question

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> What you have here is a possible maybe. The problem is you are only one person and what your are noticing is well know urban "legend?".

I hear people all the time saying the vp is tight today, and especially like you say,on the weekend. I am sure the legend has influenced them, as I am just as sure that the machines have not changed from the previous day.

Because, I think most vp players (pro or not) lose more often than they win on any given day, the legend takes on a life of its own.

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[vpFREE] Re: Hey Frank...about that 3% progressive meter?

 

Come on, you cant blame Frank for advertising and hanging out on this board. Its more exciting than his actual Facebook page. Facebook is the devil. Hes not preventing anyone from posting any important info so let the good info flow.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Long <carlboy101@...> wrote:
>
> LOL
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "rknykr@..." <rknykr@...>
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 7:49:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Hey Frank...about that 3% progressive meter?
>
> Used to get some good information from this group.  But it seems to have 
> turned into franks facebook page
>
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: mike <melbedewy1226@...>
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 00:01:19 GMT+00:00
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hey Frank...about that 3% progressive meter?
>
> Yah.  Shows the M games, despite all the harping, are a damn good deal. 
> Hope they last.
> Great show with Maloof by the way.  Loved his very "politic" answer to Bob's 
> inquiry regarding promotions in the high-limit room.  The smoothest way to 
> say "when hell freezes over" I have ever heard!
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> >
> > The base game is lower than 95% return. You think M is scary? Ha!!!
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Hey Frank...about that 3% progressive meter?

 

LOL

________________________________
From: "rknykr@yahoo.com" <rknykr@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 7:49:05 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Hey Frank...about that 3% progressive meter?

Used to get some good information from this group.  But it seems to have 
turned into franks facebook page

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: mike <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Jul 17, 2011 00:01:19 GMT+00:00
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Hey Frank...about that 3% progressive meter?

Yah.  Shows the M games, despite all the harping, are a damn good deal. 
Hope they last.
Great show with Maloof by the way.  Loved his very "politic" answer to Bob's 
inquiry regarding promotions in the high-limit room.  The smoothest way to 
say "when hell freezes over" I have ever heard!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> The base game is lower than 95% return. You think M is scary? Ha!!!
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: [vpFREE] Hey Frank...about that 3% progressive meter?

 

So true! :-)

On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:49 AM, rknykr@yahoo.com <rknykr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Used to get some good information from this group. But it seems to have
> turned into franks facebook page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: More on Bill Zender

I made no statement about math ... in any of the posts in this thread.
Please don't put words in my virtual mouth. For what it is worth, I agree
that the play of other individuals at the table, in the long run, has no
impact on my success. As long as they don't jump into the game mid-shoe.

What I object to, and did comment on, was mid-shoe entry...it is the
intrusion into the shoe that bothers me ... not the "good" or "bad" play
that the intruder exhibits. It is a matter of BJ etiquette.

I know the industry came up the mid-shoe entry bar to prevent "Wonging".
Every now and then the suits make an error that hurts them and helps
players...barring mid-shoe entry was one of them.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 3:12 PM, 007 <007@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Rprosdc wrote:
>
> >My post was a serious comment, based on many years of serious BJ play.
>
> I understand the "feeling of comraderie" on a blackjack table. I've
> experienced it and, although I've almost never played craps, from the
> screams I hear every so often, I'm sure it happens there, too. I have
> a certain objection to a newcomer interfering with that feeling, also.
> But you're also making a statement about mathematics that ma18ks and I
> disagree with. When you wrote that "all of a sudden some rube plops
>
> down and makes an outlandish bet or play that effectively the tables'
> luck," I assume "changes" should have come after "effectively" and
> "worse" was implied. Maybe, a few times when you've experienced this
> change in feeling, your luck also changed for the worse. Do you have
> a theory for how that happened? Can you show, scientifically, that
> the change in mood and the change in luck wasn't a coincidence? Might
> the change in luck have caused the change in feeling? Doesn't the
> theory that such things have no correlation, so that luck would change
> for the better after such a change in mood as often as it changed for
> the worse, even if, in your experience, it has always changed for the
> worse, make intuitive sense to you? If a scientific study were made
> after, say, 1000 such mood worsenings, how many of them would show a
> worsening of luck? ma18ks and I would estimate 500.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: RNG question

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, lasvegaspilgrim@... wrote:
>
> Guessing it has been discussed here before, but the following is a new angle, that caught IGT by surprise
>
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/07/ff_scammingslots/all/1
>
> Again, this won't be an issue in most regulated casinos, but in other more loosely regulated areas (gee like cruise ships and Indian casinos) player beware!!!
>

Wow, what an article! I couldn't help but feel sorry for the guy.

I just hope that someday if I do something in California that violates some foreign protocol, that I don't find myself on a one-way trip to Uzbekistan.

But back to my question, I guess this gives me a better idea of how it can be done. Thanks for the article!

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[vpFREE] Re: XVP: Changing "luck" at the blackjack table

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barry Glazer <b.glazer@...> wrote:
>
>
> It's even more entertaining when someone calls their big bet bluff (holding nothing) with a weak hand, and the bluffer loses -- again "how could you make that call, don't you know that a bet that size means I have a monster hand? You should have folded!!!"

Nobody bluffs me.

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[vpFREE] XVP: Changing "luck" at the blackjack table

 

How nice of you to identify yourself as the "rube" described in the original post :)

I actually never used to split tens even when it was correct because it was a red flag (that's why the dealer shouts out to the pit boss "splitting tens!"), with otherwise correct play, that I knew what I was doing -- but it sounds like you weren't going to stay still long enough for them to figure that out, so in that situation, it may not only be correct, but OK to do as well (but part of successful card-counting IS avoiding detection -- perhaps the hard part -- and therefore sometimes calls for avoiding very unusual plays, especially if they're still fairly "close" decisions).

When I played blackjack (very) seriously, a good friend of mine, who also understood and had learned card counting and correct strategy, was constantly irritated by the bad play of others, especially if they sat at "third base" and thus directly affected the dealer's cards by their play (obviously, they must have known what was coming and not been smart enough to do the right thing). His avoidance of "hunches" and adherence to good strategy was totally contradictory to his superstition about the third base player. No logic I guess.

Remarkably, while he was and is intelligent, I could never convince him that the net effect of bad (or good) play by any other player in any position at the blackjack table is zero (unless you want to discuss someone taking too many cards and thus "using up" the ones you expected to be coming, for example in a ten-rich deck).

If anyone complained that my own "unusual" (translate: correct if you know what you're doing, especially if you're counting and know you should vary from basic strategy) plays at blackjack were messing up his game, I would offer him the opportunity to pay me my bet plus my expected win (or sometimes just my bet + 10%) and then I would gladly play the hand as they would direct (after all, my correct play rarely had a 10% EV, under the best of circumstances). No one ever took me up on it -- guess they felt I should do what they wanted and suffer the consequences myself :)

My favorite part was making the offer when I KNEW I was going to do something the other guy thought was "wrong" -- then, when they declined and I went ahead as appropriate, they thought I was making "bad" plays just to irritate them.

Eventually my "bad play" and the request for them to pay me to play the way they wanted would solve the problem -- via their departure from the table -- there are always other tables -- and I never minded playing with fewer players at the table -- my positive EV for the game translated into more hands (for me) and more $$ per hour with fewer players at the table.

You see the same problem at the poker table with some players who know what's correct (and they may even be right) and who don't (for some reason) want other players to make bad plays -- someone makes a bad call with a weak hand and then sucks out to win the hand, and his opponent berates his bad play ("how could you make such a bad call??") -- while it is indeed unfortunate, I always need to remind that player that he/she wanted to be called by a weak hand, he/she just didn't want the weak hand to achieve the low-percentage suck-out and win. And if I get them aside, I also remind them that if they keep telling them every time they make a bad play, pretty soon they won't do it anymore.

It's even more entertaining when someone calls their big bet bluff (holding nothing) with a weak hand, and the bluffer loses -- again "how could you make that call, don't you know that a bet that size means I have a monster hand? You should have folded!!!" -- when I'm asked this myself, I'll simply respond something like "oh, I didn't know that 10 high was a monster hand".

Of course, poker is different than blackjack, in that doing well at poker relies on other players being inferior, while at blackjack, if I'm good at what I'm doing, it doesn't matter if the other players at the table are even better -- they'll win more than me, but we'll all win. Unfortunately for me, that's not the case at poker.

--BG
==================

> 3c. Re: More on Bill Zender
>     Posted by: "007" 007@embarqmail.com
> mdmgyn
>     Date: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:59 am ((PDT))
>
> That it's based on a misconception doesn't stop a blackjack
> player
> from feeling its effects.  I jumped into a single deck
> game at
> Harrah's Tahoe once, probably after 1 or 2 rounds had been
> dealt after
> the shuffle.  On my first hand, the count was high
> enough to split
> tens, which I did, the dealer ended up with 21, and, since
> the dealer
> was then going to shuffle, I left.  It wasn't
> appreciated by the other
> players.
>
> But I disagree that no one here would believe it. 
> Many people do.  It
> takes some effort to think past misconceptions like that,
> which not
> everyone has done.
>
> ma18ks wrote:
>
> >This paragraph is a joke, right?  No one in the
> forum would have the audacity to spout this kind of ploppy
> BS and actually mean it.
> >
> >--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
> Rprosdc <rprosdc@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I am sure I am not the only person who
> occasionally finds him or herself at
> >> a table populated by a group that has been playing
> together for a number of
> >> shoes, developed a rhythm and comeraderie, and to
> its delight finds itself
> >> in the middle of a warm or hot shoe ... when all
> of a sudden some rube plops
> >> down and makes an outlandish bet or play that
> effectively the tables' luck.

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