[vpFREE] Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 24 OCT 2011

 

Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 24 OCT 2011

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm</a>

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[vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Spornhauer" <janspornhauer@...> wrote:
>
> According to the tax code Rob is correct. It is when you have the
> availability to get the funds they are taxable. One can't just leave the
> money in their account and defer to the next year.
>

My argument would be that since points can be used for cash or free play or comps, you can't pay taxes on the points until you know how they will be used. All three uses would be treated differently by my understanding.

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[vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 

Miss Craps wrote Message #67808 re her 2006 experience with the IRS. I bookmarked it (long ago) and thought it may be of interest to those that are following this thread:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/67808

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:
>
> That wiki reminds me of filling out federal forms (for a small constructionn project) that asked that question first and went downhill from there.
>
> The project was ~$300K of which over $30K ended being spent on accounting services. I think this project was part of the life time accountant employement act.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_cash_and_accrual_methods_of_accounting
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Spornhauer" <janspornhauer@> wrote:
> > >
> > > According to the tax code Rob is correct. It is when you have the
> > > availability to get the funds they are taxable. One can't just leave the
> > > money in their account and defer to the next year.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > bmather4440
> > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:16 PM
> > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is this 100% true? I think it's a grey area as to what year you should count
> > > it as income (I remember reading once that as soon as you have "funds" that
> > > are eligible to be cashed out at any time, you have immediate income for
> > > that year ... i.e. it doesn't matter when you cash it out, you technically
> > > have income when the cashback accrues).
> > >
> > > Regardless, I'm definitely not a tax pro...
> > >
> > > > FYI There are tax advantages in deciding what year to take cashback.
> > > >
> > > > And sometimes I wonder why casinos put in high limit games if they don't
> > > really want people to play them.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 

That wiki reminds me of filling out federal forms (for a small constructionn project) that asked that question first and went downhill from there.

The project was ~$300K of which over $30K ended being spent on accounting services. I think this project was part of the life time accountant employement act.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_cash_and_accrual_methods_of_accounting
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Spornhauer" <janspornhauer@> wrote:
> >
> > According to the tax code Rob is correct. It is when you have the
> > availability to get the funds they are taxable. One can't just leave the
> > money in their account and defer to the next year.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > bmather4440
> > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:16 PM
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this 100% true? I think it's a grey area as to what year you should count
> > it as income (I remember reading once that as soon as you have "funds" that
> > are eligible to be cashed out at any time, you have immediate income for
> > that year ... i.e. it doesn't matter when you cash it out, you technically
> > have income when the cashback accrues).
> >
> > Regardless, I'm definitely not a tax pro...
> >
> > > FYI There are tax advantages in deciding what year to take cashback.
> > >
> > > And sometimes I wonder why casinos put in high limit games if they don't
> > really want people to play them.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 

Rob, I'll try to clarify my thoughts here ...

Say you buy a computer printer and it comes with a $100 rebate. It's a no-brainer that there's no implication re the IRS for the average joe -- it's simply a rebate on the purchase price.

However, if you happen to take a business deduction for the printer, then there's no way around the fact that the rebate reduces your basis in the printer and your corresponding deduction.

The way I see it, it's the same situation with cashback: If you aren't reporting anything on your return related to your wins/losses, then cashback is a reporting non-event as well. But once you report wins and offset them with losses, it's necessary to reduce those losses with any redeemed cashback (in other words, what you report on your return should reflect your actual net cash impact from gaming).

But I have no personal vested interest in this position, Rob, and if your reporting (x. cashback) passes muster, more power to you.

- H.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just reporting what I've been told in the audits Harry. My comments pertaining to other rewards seem to make sense to me, in that if you report slot card reward cash as income, you'd probably be inclined to report credit card reward cash back etc. also. I don't see where buying something, winning something, or losing something has anything to do with it.

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[vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_cash_and_accrual_methods_of_accounting

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Spornhauer" <janspornhauer@...> wrote:
>
> According to the tax code Rob is correct. It is when you have the
> availability to get the funds they are taxable. One can't just leave the
> money in their account and defer to the next year.
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> bmather4440
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:16 PM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago
>
>
>
>
>
> Is this 100% true? I think it's a grey area as to what year you should count
> it as income (I remember reading once that as soon as you have "funds" that
> are eligible to be cashed out at any time, you have immediate income for
> that year ... i.e. it doesn't matter when you cash it out, you technically
> have income when the cashback accrues).
>
> Regardless, I'm definitely not a tax pro...
>
> > FYI There are tax advantages in deciding what year to take cashback.
> >
> > And sometimes I wonder why casinos put in high limit games if they don't
> really want people to play them.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 

Harry wrote:

>rob.singer1111@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Yes, gambling profit. Cash back etc. is no different than airline
>> miles, hotel points, or any other reward program.
>
>Since I don't haven't had any discussions with the IRS on this matter, whatever I offer up here must be considered "academic".
>
>That said, I find myself hard pressed to imagine an examiner wouldn't view the relationship between cashback and the underlying reported gaming activity to be sufficiently strong to warrant combined reporting.
>
>"Cashback" takes many guises, of course ... but envision making a compelling argument in a case with same day cashback that a $1000 session loss is deductible, but $100 of cashback received same day from that activity is non-reportible.
>
>Your position, Rob, taken to the extreme, argues that if I lose $5000 during a 100% loss rebate promotion, the loss is deductible, but the refund need not be accounted for.
>
>Bear in mind that they key distinction I'm making re your posted comment is the imminent tie between cashback and a reportable activity. None of the other items you note as being similar have as strong a tie to another taxable event (although many may indeed be earned in loose conjunction with activities having tax significance).

The last time I was audited, I was told that cash back was taxable.
It was even treated as an indicator of the accuracy of my entire
return. The auditor said he would verify a major item of cash back
and assume everything else in my return was as accurate as it was.

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[vpFREE] Re: A little help please

 

As I remember the resort fee was huge like $30.
Well maybe you'll get an offer from Stations Corporate based on $5K action for another one of their casinos. There's like 19 of them and a lot with fair bets.
Break a leg

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@...> wrote:
>
> Yea Right!!!
> They didn't comp a thing....however I didn't ask either.
> I got the room on a Groupon for $99. Still had to pay the resort fee.
> I won't be staying anywhere where they have the resort fee in the future.
> Brad
> Amarillo
> Go Ranger!!
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> >
> > Did they comp you a room?
> > A free room offer at GVR for $5K action on a more than fair bet paytable is sweet.
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Played FPDW at GVR this trip to Vegas. Their machines say $4=3pts.
> > > I played about 5200 points. (which earned me a whole $5).
> > > Was this enough hands on average to have hit the deuces? I didn't btw.
> > > Ended up about $80 down. Made $120 in a session of live poker at GN.
> > >
> > > GVR was ok, but don't think I'd stay there again.
> > > Going again in Feb. What game would you recommend I practice that pays 100% and is widely available?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Brad
> > > Amarillo
> > >
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: A little help please

 

Yea Right!!!
They didn't comp a thing....however I didn't ask either.
I got the room on a Groupon for $99. Still had to pay the resort fee.
I won't be staying anywhere where they have the resort fee in the future.
Brad
Amarillo
Go Ranger!!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:
>
> Did they comp you a room?
> A free room offer at GVR for $5K action on a more than fair bet paytable is sweet.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@> wrote:
> >
> > Played FPDW at GVR this trip to Vegas. Their machines say $4=3pts.
> > I played about 5200 points. (which earned me a whole $5).
> > Was this enough hands on average to have hit the deuces? I didn't btw.
> > Ended up about $80 down. Made $120 in a session of live poker at GN.
> >
> > GVR was ok, but don't think I'd stay there again.
> > Going again in Feb. What game would you recommend I practice that pays 100% and is widely available?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Brad
> > Amarillo
> >
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 

I'm just reporting what I've been told in the audits Harry. My comments pertaining to other rewards seem to make sense to me, in that if you report slot card reward cash as income, you'd probably be inclined to report credit card reward cash back etc. also. I don't see where buying something, winning something, or losing something has anything to do with it.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

----- Reply message -----
From: "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago
Date: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:36 pm
rob.singer1111@yahoo.com wrote:

> Yes, gambling profit. Cash back etc. is no different than airline

> miles, hotel points, or any other reward program.

Since I don't haven't had any discussions with the IRS on this matter, whatever I offer up here must be considered "academic".

That said, I find myself hard pressed to imagine an examiner wouldn't view the relationship between cashback and the underlying reported gaming activity to be sufficiently strong to warrant combined reporting.

"Cashback" takes many guises, of course ... but envision making a compelling argument in a case with same day cashback that a $1000 session loss is deductible, but $100 of cashback received same day from that activity is non-reportible.

Your position, Rob, taken to the extreme, argues that if I lose $5000 during a 100% loss rebate promotion, the loss is deductible, but the refund need not be accounted for.

Bear in mind that they key distinction I'm making re your posted comment is the imminent tie between cashback and a reportable activity. None of the other items you note as being similar have as strong a tie to another taxable event (although many may indeed be earned in loose conjunction with activities having tax significance).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Trespass at Casino Montelago

 

Could it still be taxable if the cash back or rebate or whatever you
call it is rendered as limited just to slot play?

On 10/24/2011 10:36 PM, vp_wiz wrote:
>
> rob.singer1111@yahoo.com <mailto:rob.singer1111%40yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, gambling profit. Cash back etc. is no different than airline
> > miles, hotel points, or any other reward program.
>
> Since I don't haven't had any discussions with the IRS on this matter,
> whatever I offer up here must be considered "academic".
>
> That said, I find myself hard pressed to imagine an examiner wouldn't
> view the relationship between cashback and the underlying reported
> gaming activity to be sufficiently strong to warrant combined reporting.
>
> "Cashback" takes many guises, of course ... but envision making a
> compelling argument in a case with same day cashback that a $1000
> session loss is deductible, but $100 of cashback received same day
> from that activity is non-reportible.
>
> Your position, Rob, taken to the extreme, argues that if I lose $5000
> during a 100% loss rebate promotion, the loss is deductible, but the
> refund need not be accounted for.
>
> Bear in mind that they key distinction I'm making re your posted
> comment is the imminent tie between cashback and a reportable
> activity. None of the other items you note as being similar have as
> strong a tie to another taxable event (although many may indeed be
> earned in loose conjunction with activities having tax significance).
>

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