[vpFREE] Re: Check out Casino smoke ruling / Just pass the ban

> Helena, Montana instituted a smoking ban that included
bars/casinos.
> These are small casinos. Up to 20 machines. You have to have a
> liquor license to obtain a gaming license so the machines are either
> in the bar or a room adjacent to the bar. There are about 20 of
> these casinos in Helena.
>
> The smoking ban lasted six months. During that time these
> bar/casinos experienced a $5,000,000 shortfall in revenue. The
> smoking ban was found unconstitutional for, of all reasons, the law
> didn't provide for a jury trial for anyone accused of breaking it.
>
> When the ban lifted revenue returned to pre-ban levels. That's hard
> evidence.

Short term effects such as this are not surprising. I agree that
anyone who thinks this won't happen is self-serving.

What is less clear is the long-term effects of such bans. CA poker
rooms do not seem to be suffereing. But as is so often the case, it
is difficult to isolate one variable. If a competing casion opens
around the same time as a smoking ban, it is almost impossible to
sift out which factor led to a decrease in revenues.

I suspect a smoking ban would do great harm to LV casinos. Many of
their best customers (whales) come from overseas where smoking is
more prevalent. These gamblers have choices such as Macau or Europe,
I suspect many of them will simply go elsewhere. I think US
customers would adapt, especially if the bans are ubiquitous within
the US.

In no way does this unfortunate side effect mean that smoking bans
should be put to a halt. Such an argument would be akin to saying
that hard hats should not be required in constrction zones.

It does mean the NV casinow will fight it to the death or until
they lose millions in law suits. This is one reason we have federal
health standards. NV casinos (and therefore the entire state)
cannot be trusted. The speical interest group (casinos) is too
strong here.

Even changes as clearly beneficial as the refrigerator
will have a negative impact upon some businesses.

Businesses must adapt to changing conditions. If they cannot, they
perish. Would you get rid of iPods so that Tower Records can keep
its market share? Or would you have outlawed refrigerators
to protect the iceman. Or maybe local taxes go up. Or whatever.

OSHA rules in places like construction sites probably cost
businesses millions in costs associated with compliance.
This is no different. If a few businesses go broke, then they
go broke. The casinos have no entitilement to protection from
such changes.

As for the lawsuits..... I am shocked it took this long before
a casino worker won such a case. Back in 2002-2003 I predicted
this exact thing would kill public smoking, including specifically
the case of dealers and their extreme exposure to 2nd hand smoke.
I believe that eventually the cost of lawsuits will become too high.
Now it seems to have begun.

QuadZilla

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[vpFREE] Re: Hypothetical casino smoking ban (XVP)...

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, bjaygold@... wrote:
>n2
> I'm trying to wrap my head around what would really happen,
business-wise,
> if casinos were to completely ban smoking.
>
> Let's say as of tomorrow, smoking in all forms will be banned in
all casinos
> everywhere. Period. No ifs, ands, or butts.
>
> Let's also say that this is the ONLY change made. The casinos keep
the same
> paytables, rules, promos, games, etc.
>
> For you SMOKERS, based solely on the smoking ban, would you:
>
> S1: Play the same as you did before.
> S2: Play slightly less than you did before.
> S3: Play substantially less than you did before.
> S4: Quit playing in casinos.
>
> For you NONSMOKERS, based solely on the smoking ban, would you:
>
> N1: Play the same as you did before.
> N2: Play slightly more than you did before.
> N3: Play substantially more than you did before.
>
> All you have to do is respond with "S3," or any of the seven two-
character
> responses. Or comment as you please.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian (my response is N2)
>
>
>
> **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the
Grammy
> Awards. Go to AOL Music.
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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RE: [vpFREE] VP Software Programs

Jean wrote to me: I wonder why then you feel the need to comment unless
you have a personal
vendetta against me. There is no "history" between us. I recommend
your
products and stay away from comments about your personal attacks on me
and
others.

I have given my side of the situation only because my reputation was
being
attacked by Jim in a public forum, his Web site. But I shall discuss the
subject no more.

I don't have a personal vendetta against you, but their certainly IS a
"history" between us. We have each made negative comments about the
other both in this forum and elsewhere. Surely you can't deny that.

I don't believe I made any personal attacks against you in this thread.
I remarked that your "I've forgotten about the $7,000" comment struck me
as disingenuous. I commented that I didn't find your comments
persuasive. I mentioned that I find Jim Wolf more credible on this than
you. None of these can fairly be construed as a personal attack.

Posting on vpFREE is hardly an even response to Jim writing on his
website. If you wish to respond on YOUR website, that would be an even
response. You bringing it into vpFREE makes it everyone's business here.
Including mine.

I guess time will tell whether you are going to discuss this subject any
further.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Paris Casino

I'd also recommend Mon Ami Gabi at Paris. It's a FRENCH
steakhouse and we eat there most every trip to Vegas. Every
meal has been delicious from the steaks, to shrimp/seafood/fish
to pork. They do specialize in steaks tho and could accommodate
a small group--altho probably NOT on the outside patio. Wines are
great and service is top-notch.

Jean H--

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go.... Dr. Seuss

----- Original Message ----
From: tralfamidorgooglycrackers <tralfamidorgooglycrackers@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 1:51:35 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Paris Casino

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Smith <rsmith3456@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Does anyone have an opinion on the Les Artistes Steakhouse at
Paris...planning a family meet there in late March and would
appreciate any feedback.

I ate there last summer and was not impressed. The food was only so-so
for the price (expensive), although the service was good. Two much
better nearby alternatives IMHO are the steakhouse at Bally's, and
Gallagher's in NYNY, also expensive but with excellent food and
service.

If you want to have the best steak in town, go to 9ine at the Palms.

__________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

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[vpFREE] Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas BLOG - 16 FEB 2008

Listening to Gambling Gurus

http://tinyurl.com/2teuqm

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/2teuqm">
http://tinyurl.com/2teuqm</a>

************************************************

This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.

************************************************

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[vpFREE] Re: Hypothetical casino smoking ban (XVP)...

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Re: [vpFREE] Hypothetical casino smoking ban (XVP)...

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[vpFREE] Re: Station "level" confusion

On 15 Feb 2008 at 17:34, wpbacker wrote:

> I am not a local, I live in AZ. So, by monthy mailers, do you mean
> offers to slot tourneys etc.? Or do you mean monthly mailers that
> include some kind of free play? I don't usually get any free play and
> don't always get monthly mailers. I'm President and hate to lose my
> benefits just because I can't play for 90 days.

He was referring to the monthly mailers that
Las Vegas locals get. And your President status is
good for a year once you qualify for that level card
whether or not you have subsequent play.

vpFae

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Re: [vpFREE] VP Software Programs

Dancer wrote: "I only know second hand the disagreements between Jean and
Jim."

I wonder why then you feel the need to comment unless you have a personal
vendetta against me. There is no "history" between us. I recommend your
products and stay away from comments about your personal attacks on me and
others.

I have given my side of the situation only because my reputation was being
attacked by Jim in a public forum, his Web site. But I will discuss the
subject no more. I will let the trust people have had in me for many years
do the speaking.
________________
Jean $¢ott
http://queenofcomps.com/

New blog taking the place of
Frugal Fridays. Go to
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/
and click on "Frugal Vegas."

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[vpFREE] N9NE Steakhouse at the Palms, was Paris recommends (XVP)


Some things to keep in mind, about N9NE.

First, the food and service are topnotch.

Second, the noise level is very loud when the restaurant is busy. I
therefore recommend going on Sunday through Wednesday, at 5:30 or 6:00 at the latest.
After that, you might have to shout to carry on a conversation with your
dinner companions.

Brian

====================================

In a message dated 2/16/2008 6:31:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rsmith3456@yahoo.com writes:

Thanks to all for your suggestions...will make the reservation at Les
Artiste but will sample n9ne on my own.

Richard

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

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[vpFREE] vote

S3 1/2

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

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[vpFREE] Re: Check out Casino smoke ruling / Just pass the ban

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pokegimp" <wincerwj@...> wrote:
>
> Freedom has always been a big thing for me, and quite simply I
always
> felt that a proprietor should have the freedom to choose what type
of
> establishment he wants to run. If he wants to have a place that
> allows smoking, so be it; if he wants a non-smoking place, more
power
> to him. After all, a patron has the choice to go to whichever
place
> he wants. If you don't want to be around smoke just go to a non-
> smoking place; if you smoke, go to a place that allows it. If the
> non-smoking place is across town, then you decide which is more
> important to you, the convenience of going someplace closer or
> staying away from second-hand smoke. If you choose convenience,
> don't complain. After all if a smoke-free environment isn't
> important enough to you to drive a longer distance, than why is it
> important enough to infringe upon another's freedom to smoke?
>
> Some say that smoking infringes on a non-smoker's right to air free
> from second-hand smoke. That would be true if smokers were going
to
> the non-smoker's house to smoke. But if the non-smoker chooses to
go
> someplace that allows smoking, they have chosen to subject themself
> to the possibility of breathing smoke, and thus have given their
> consent. If I decide to sleep on train tracks and a train hits me,
> the train didn't infringe on my freedom to sleep wherever I want.
If
> I don't want to get hit by the train, I just won't go to the tracks.

Just wondering, as far as I know it's legal to vomit. So, you would
have no problem if I walked up to you expressed my freedom to vomit
by spewing all over your face?

Further expanding on this ... since vomiting is NOT illegal anywhere
then if you don't want to expose yourself to this possibility, you
should never go ANYWHERE.

See what happens when you use fallacious logic?

>
> An analogy...A Catholic wants to go to church, but it's way across
> town and service is at an inconvenient time. But there is a
> synagogue across the street that has services at better times. He
> gets the idea that he should try to pass a law so that all houses
of
> worship only offer Catholic services because it would be more
> convenient to him...absolutely ridiculous. If you want a Catholic
> service, go to a Catholic church, don't try to make every place
cater
> to your wants, infringing on the freedom of others to do what they
> want.

Silly analogy. I hope this isn't the extent of your logic.

>
> By the way, I quit smoking quite a while back, and as such, am
> probably more sensitive to smoke than a lot of people who never
> smoked. So guess what, I DON'T FREQUENT PLACES THAT GET REALLY
> SMOKEY, regardless of what they offer that I can't find elsewhere.

Be careful, vomiting is allowed everywhere.

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[vpFREE] Re: Check out Casino smoke ruling / Just pass the ban

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pokegimp" <wincerwj@...> wrote:
> Some say that smoking infringes on a non-smoker's right to air free
> from second-hand smoke. That would be true if smokers were going to
> the non-smoker's house to smoke. But if the non-smoker chooses to go
> someplace that allows smoking, they have chosen to subject themself
> to the possibility of breathing smoke, and thus have given their
> consent

Agree, but when a smoker lets their smoke waft directly onto me, then I
think they are violating my rights. I have had smokers tell me that
they did not design the ventilation system so it is not their fault
that the smok is going onto me. I think that logic is just plain
faulty, but prevalent.

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