Re: [vpFREE] Dream Card

 

Thanks for the analysis Harry! I was wondering if the 1% drop in Dream Card frequency would equate with an approximately equal drop in EV. That was my gut feeling.

I still hope the error is just in sloppy typing on the part of WOO's underlings and can be verified by he or Bob. It seems odd Action Gaming would only change the Dream Card frequency on the deuces wild options of this game platform.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2015, at 4:02 PM, harry.porter@verizon.net [vpFREE] <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> If the original 99.91% published ER for 9/15 DW was based upon a 59% Dreamcard frequency, but the actual installed frequency was 58%, I guesstimate (with likely accuracy) that this would reduce the ER by 0.85% to 99.05%.
>
>
>
>

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Posted by: Vegasvpplayer <vegasvpplayer@gmail.com>
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Re: [vpFREE] Dream Card

 


I don't mind the question, because I originally pretty much dismissed the impact at first glance.

However, factor in that most Dreamcard hands with the feature active have an ER approaching 300%. (See WOO's website for confirmation. For 9/15 DW, I back into a "Dreamcard active" ER of 270%) It's now not difficult to imagine that a mere 1% shift in the Dreamcard frequency will have a significant impact on ER.

Weighting the reduced ER associated with Dreamcard hands and the increased ER associated with standard hands, under an assumption of a 1% reduction in Dreamcard frequency, vs the original stated game ER, I arrive at a 0.85 ER reduction.

- H.



---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <ehpee@...> wrote :

Are you sure you're not missing a zero on that devaluation. One percent reduction in dreamcard frequency doesn't seem at first glance to be as significant as you say. Another thing couldn't the difference in the %58 and %59 numbers just be a rounding difference and the actual difference could actually be less than %1. Just asking questions I'm no math whiz.

Regards
A.P.

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:02 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Dream Card



I thought I had replied to this earlier, but don't see the post. Maybe I self-edited. In any case, I've rethought the reply.

Bob reported the numbers provided by the manufacturer.

If the original 99.91% published ER for 9/15 DW was based upon a 59% Dreamcard frequency, but the actual installed frequency was 58%, I guesstimate (with likely accuracy) that this would reduce the ER by 0.85% to 99.05%.

That's a sufficient return depression that I'd be inclined to want to get this sorted before venturing with play.

That will only happen with someone running the numbers/probabilities in the manner that produced the game stat's in WOO's webpage, or perhaps contacting the manufacturer themselves.

The calculation is extensive, but by no means onerous (more likely just tedious). Perhaps you can get noti to dedicate the time.

- H.


---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote :

Do you know if Bob used the 58% or 59% Dream Card frequency? I don't think this article is any longer available for viewing by the public. Action Gaming may have decreased the frequency because casinos felt it was too generous. Hard to believe WOO would have used the wrong figure on every deuces wild game unless his web person was really incompetent\







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Re: [vpFREE] Dream Card

 

Are you sure you're not missing a zero on that devaluation. One percent reduction in dreamcard frequency doesn't seem at first glance to be as significant as you say. Another thing couldn't the difference in the %58 and %59 numbers just be a rounding difference and the actual difference could actually be less than %1. Just asking questions I'm no math whiz.

Regards
A.P.

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:02 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Dream Card

I thought I had replied to this earlier, but don't see the post. Maybe I self-edited. In any case, I've rethought the reply.

Bob reported the numbers provided by the manufacturer.

If the original 99.91% published ER for 9/15 DW was based upon a 59% Dreamcard frequency, but the actual installed frequency was 58%, I guesstimate (with likely accuracy) that this would reduce the ER by 0.85% to 99.05%.

That's a sufficient return depression that I'd be inclined to want to get this sorted before venturing with play.

That will only happen with someone running the numbers/probabilities in the manner that produced the game stat's in WOO's webpage, or perhaps contacting the manufacturer themselves.

The calculation is extensive, but by no means onerous (more likely just tedious). Perhaps you can get noti to dedicate the time.

- H.

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote :

Do you know if Bob used the 58% or 59% Dream Card frequency? I don't think this article is any longer available for viewing by the public. Action Gaming may have decreased the frequency because casinos felt it was too generous. Hard to believe WOO would have used the wrong figure on every deuces wild game unless his web person was really incompetent\

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted by: "Albert Pearson" <ehpee@rogers.com>
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Re: when you hit the key, was Re: [vpFREE] Digest Number 9078

 

hi, IGT , VP machines in southern cal casinos like Rincon, pala, valley view etc with respect to randomness, are there any questions currently or the games are fair and square like NV ? Thank you.






Sent from Windows Mail





From: nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com [vpFREE]
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎June‎ ‎9‎, ‎2015 ‎2‎:‎23‎ ‎PM
To: nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com [vpFREE]









This pair of posts re pRNG (pseudo random number generators) presumably was prompted by a reference in a recent post to whether video poker outcomes are impacted by the timing of a button hit.

It goes without saying that card selection in current vp equipment is impacted by button hit timing. However, that influence doesn't go so far as having any impact on expected outcomes.

Therefore, for all intents and purposes, the timing of button hits is immaterial to any type of game analysis.

(And as far as the distinction between pRNG results and true random card occurrence, the thing to take home is that statistically one can't be distinguished from the other, and therefore it's not a significant distinction for the purposes of game evaluation.)

- H.


---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote :

John von Neumann on random numbers: "Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. For, as has been pointed out several times, there is no such thing as a random number - there are only methods to produce random numbers, and a strict arithmetic procedure of course is not such a method."

https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Posted by: <hjclasvegas6969@yahoo.com>
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Re: [vpFREE] Dream Card

 


I thought I had replied to this earlier, but don't see the post. Maybe I self-edited. In any case, I've rethought the reply.

Bob reported the numbers provided by the manufacturer.

If the original 99.91% published ER for 9/15 DW was based upon a 59% Dreamcard frequency, but the actual installed frequency was 58%, I guesstimate (with likely accuracy) that this would reduce the ER by 0.85% to 99.05%.

That's a sufficient return depression that I'd be inclined to want to get this sorted before venturing with play.

That will only happen with someone running the numbers/probabilities in the manner that produced the game stat's in WOO's webpage, or perhaps contacting the manufacturer themselves.

The calculation is extensive, but by no means onerous (more likely just tedious). Perhaps you can get noti to dedicate the time.

- H.


---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote :

Do you know if Bob used the 58% or 59% Dream Card frequency? I don't think this article is any longer available for viewing by the public. Action Gaming may have decreased the frequency because casinos felt it was too generous. Hard to believe WOO would have used the wrong figure on every deuces wild game unless his web person was really incompetent\



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted by: harry.porter@verizon.net
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Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

 

The purpose of the post was to make a comment on the double up feature. Bob was talking about different reasons for using or not using. I was just putting forth my view on the subject.

Regards
A.P.

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 6:26 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

Understood. Just not sure what aspect of Bob's article this is in response to (or was it simply an impetus to reinforce what you've recently asserted?)

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <ehpee@...> wrote :

As far as I'm concerned, since I am not aware of any casino that lets you earn points when you use the double up feature, I can't see a good reason
to double my coin in without earning the extra points, but that's just my opinion.

Regards
A.P.

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:33 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

More on Using the Double Up Feature

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0609.cfm http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0609.cfm

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted by: "Albert Pearson" <ehpee@rogers.com>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (4)

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Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

 


Understood. Just not sure what aspect of Bob's article this is in response to (or was it simply an impetus to reinforce what you've recently asserted?)

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <ehpee@...> wrote :

As far as I'm concerned, since I am not aware of any casino that lets you earn points when you use the double up feature, I can't see a good reason
to double my coin in without earning the extra points, but that's just my opinion.

Regards
A.P.

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:33 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015


Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

More on Using the Double Up Feature

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0609.cfm http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0609.cfm

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted by: harry.porter@verizon.net
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (3)

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Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

 

As far as I'm concerned, since I am not aware of any casino that lets you earn points when you use the double up feature, I can't see a good reason
to double my coin in without earning the extra points, but that's just my opinion.

Regards
A.P.

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:33 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

More on Using the Double Up Feature

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0609.cfm

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Posted by: "Albert Pearson" <ehpee@rogers.com>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (2)

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__,_._,___

Re: when you hit the key, was Re: [vpFREE] Digest Number 9078

 


This pair of posts re pRNG (pseudo random number generators) presumably was prompted by a reference in a recent post to whether video poker outcomes are impacted by the timing of a button hit.

It goes without saying that card selection in current vp equipment is impacted by button hit timing. However, that influence doesn't go so far as having any impact on expected outcomes.

Therefore, for all intents and purposes, the timing of button hits is immaterial to any type of game analysis.

(And as far as the distinction between pRNG results and true random card occurrence, the thing to take home is that statistically one can't be distinguished from the other, and therefore it's not a significant distinction for the purposes of game evaluation.)

- H.


---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote :

John von Neumann on random numbers: "Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. For, as has been pointed out several times, there is no such thing as a random number - there are only methods to produce random numbers, and a strict arithmetic procedure of course is not such a method."

https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Posted by: harry.porter@verizon.net
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (4)

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Re: when you hit the key, was Re: [vpFREE] Digest Number 9078

 

John von Neumann on random numbers: "Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. For, as has been pointed out several times, there is no such thing as a random number - there are only methods to produce random numbers, and a strict arithmetic procedure of course is not such a method."

https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf https://dornsifecms.usc.edu/assets/sites/520/docs/VonNeumann-ams12p36-38.pdf

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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when you hit the key, was Re: [vpFREE] Digest Number 9078

 

When you hit the key does affect the outcome, that's how they randomize the pseudorandom number generator:

Pseudorandom number generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator

Pseudorandom number generator - Wikipedia, the fr... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator A pseudorandom number generator (PRNG), also known as a deterministic random bit generator (DRBG),[1] is an algorithm for generating a sequence ...



View on en.wikiped... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator
Preview by Yahoo




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[vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

 

Bob Dancer's LVA - 9 JUN 2015

More on Using the Double Up Feature

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0609.cfm

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

__._,_.___
Posted by: vpFREE3355 <vpfree3355@gmail.com>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)

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[vpFREE] Scot Krause's Slot Club Spotlight - 9 JUN 2015

 

Scot Krause's Slot Club Spotlight - 9 JUN 2015

Longhorn or Bighorn Casino offer big club benefits

http://gamingtoday.com/articles/article/54256-Longhorn_or_Bighorn_Casino_offer_big_club_benefits#.VXb6a89VhBc

or

http://goo.gl/PIKbD7

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

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Posted by: vpFREE3355 <vpfree3355@gmail.com>
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