[vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet

 

It seems to me that they can make the promo favorable to them without needing to violate the rules of the promo:

1. Get rid of high denominations to eliminate scenarios where someone would get a big early hit and quit. Plus with low denominations, if a lot of people quit after only being down 10k or so, there's a greater chance that people skip some of the freeplay pickups because the amounts aren't as big.
2. Lower payables to the point that it is highly unlikely for people to be ahead after significant play.
3. Only allow freeplay on select slot machines with the minimum legal return. Limiting which machines customers can use freeplay on also makes it easier to monitor whether people are collecting freeplay for other people. I'm sure there are a lot of out-of-towners hoping to have others collect freeplay for them so that they don't have to make so many trips.
4. With that in mind, maybe even make people go to the desk and show ID to have the freeplay loaded.
5. Have a good investment strategy for the large interest free loan the customers are giving them.

And yet it wouldn't surprise if they still end up modifying the rules...

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet

 

So where does adoption of new rules, that enhance Revel's position, fall? For example, eliminating FSP use on video poker (or at least on machines with more liberal paytables).

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:
>
> On last week's Gambling with an Edge"
> radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to
> whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate
> promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to
> be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's
> card. We're looking for other things.
>
>
> But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't
> violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If
> they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.
>
> The "honoring matchplay"
> part of their promotion is not part of the bet.
>
> Neither Richard
> nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we
> suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE
> discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.
>
> Bob
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also

 

The higher the pot odds, the bigger the net EV:

100,000 x 18/38 (roulette color) = $47,368
100,000/2 (1-to-1 no rake) = $50,000
200,000/3 (2-to-1 no rake) = $66,667
300,000/4 (3-to-1 no rake) = $75,000
400,000/5 (4-to-1 no rake) = $80,000
3,500,000/38 (roulette number) = $92,105
(infinity-to-1) = $100,000

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@...> wrote:
>
> Roulette with friends.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@> wrote:
> >
> > I think the big question is what games will be available after August 1 to use the free play rebate on. I would not be surprised to see all 9/6 JOB disappear and I do not believe the Gaming Commission would get involved on this happening.
> >
> > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: nightoftheiguana2000@
> > > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 18:59:52 +0000
> > > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also
> > >
> > > The NJ gaming regulators are the toughest in the world, the casinos can't even trespass unless a law has been broken, they're not going to let Revel put a black mark on AC gambling. Revel will follow through and not commit advertising fraud or play bait and switch or NJ will take control of the casino, just as they did with the Trop.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leonard <mleon2000@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I keep waiting for the asterisk to appear:
> > > > Loss refunds are capped at $100,000.*
> > > >
> > > > *$100,000 is the total amount available to all players under this promotion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@>
> > > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 10:42 AM
> > > > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > �
> > > > So are the Vegas and Cali casinos just going to shut down while Revel takes all the July action? No loss gambling for the entire month up to a $100,000 loss is a pretty attractive incentive for the general gambling populace. Are the airlines already booked solid?
> > > >
> > > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, st.tropez97@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Agonpd <agonpd@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > does anyone know if this only applies to freeplay offers from atlantic city
> > > > > > casinos? (i assume so, since that's the competition primarily; but so is
> > > > > > philly, etc.)?
> > > > >
> > > > > There's a bit more info on their website now. They will match free slot play offers "from any AC casino" and "A complete AC casino mail piece that includes guest name and address is required. Mail piece will not be returned."
> > > > >
> > > > > About the matching of other casino offers: http://www.revelresorts.com/events/were-matching-your-july-slot-offers-you-cant-lose
> > > > >
> > > > > About�the loss rebate: http://www.revelresorts.com/events/all-july-slot-losses-refunded-you-cant-lose���
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate

 

I was thinking some sort of progressive betting stratgey based on a target average income per hour boosted by cumulative loss.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
>
> If you hit a royal on the first hand, seems like you should call it a night, even though most gamblers will probably try to go for another royal. On the other extreme, if you are down $99,875 and then hit a royal, you should probably continue on in search of second royal. Where's the inflection point? If the royal puts you at least $50,000 ahead, quit, otherwise continue on? There might be some strategy modifications was well. Royal only strategy:?
>
>
> 5RF
> 4RF
> 3RF
> QJs
> KQs, KJs
> AKs, AQs, AJs
> JTs, QTs, KTs, ATs
> J, Q, K, A
> draw 5
>
>
> Something like Royal Deuces might be an interesting game to play.
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@> wrote:
> >
> > Plus you could take junkets to other casinos on dates good for the freeplay at Revel. There were articles about people with tons of unredeemed Harrah's points, time to use them at Showboat which is next door. Spirit Airlines is almost so cheap you can day trip from certain cities. Revel may not give you a room comp but if you lost 100K it is likely the other card benefits would make it a cheap trip.
> >
> > My question is why did you mention $150K. If someone did walk in and hit 100K on the first $25 pull, why would you not just leave and go to the Borgata or some other place? Once you are ahead doesn't a loss rebate lose value?
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:
> > >
> > > NOTI wrote: Most likely they will, unless they have something better to do that
> > > weekend. Some will try teaming up on the freeplay collection, but they
> > > run the risk of getting caught. If you get unlucky and max out the loss
> > > at $100,000, divided by 20 that's $5,000/week. Unless you know where you
> > > can get more than $5,000 freeplay on a weekend, you can probably
> > > justify a flight from almost anywhere. Revel might actually steal some
> > > gamblers from Macau.
> > >
> > > The week there ends something like Sunday midnight and begins again at Monday 8 a.m. So if you can stay over on Sunday nights, it's 10 trips, not 20, from August 11 through December 8. Even so, it's a big commitment
> > >
> > > I'm not going to fly there from Vegas --- but it would be easy for me to justify the 10 trips from anywhere east of the Mississippi --- and a few places slightly west of there. This is HUGE. It would be easy for me to play my free play and leave. And while I was in town, play a few other places now that I know I'm going to be back to pick up mailers from those places as well. (Forget the mailers at Revel --- those will be $0 during the promotion in order to pay for the promotion.) This promotion will likely bring in business to several other casinos in town as well. Revel thinks their promotion will hurt other casinos. I think otherwise.
> > >
> > > One of the main reasons for most of us non-locals not to play in AC is that the typical player reward system there is based on many repeat visits. This 10-to-20 scheduled visits to Revel gets around that drawback. Once you're around this drawback, several casinos in AC have good (games + mailers) combinations. So you play them while the Revel promotion is going on --- and come mid December, stop going to AC.
> > >
> > > The reason people are talking about the losses instead of the win is that you have to be sure your brakes work well before you go speeding away. Yes the intelligent stopping place goal is to win $150,000 or so before you quit. But there is a large random element and many people will lose whatever they can afford to lend the casino for 5 months. You cannot know beforehand whether you will be one of the winners or the losers, so you need to be sure you are prepared to deal with the multiple trips before you undertake the promotion.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also

 

Roulette with friends.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:
>
> I think the big question is what games will be available after August 1 to use the free play rebate on. I would not be surprised to see all 9/6 JOB disappear and I do not believe the Gaming Commission would get involved on this happening.
>
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > From: nightoftheiguana2000@...
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 18:59:52 +0000
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also
> >
> > The NJ gaming regulators are the toughest in the world, the casinos can't even trespass unless a law has been broken, they're not going to let Revel put a black mark on AC gambling. Revel will follow through and not commit advertising fraud or play bait and switch or NJ will take control of the casino, just as they did with the Trop.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leonard <mleon2000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I keep waiting for the asterisk to appear:
> > > Loss refunds are capped at $100,000.*
> > >
> > > *$100,000 is the total amount available to all players under this promotion.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@>
> > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 10:42 AM
> > > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Â
> > > So are the Vegas and Cali casinos just going to shut down while Revel takes all the July action? No loss gambling for the entire month up to a $100,000 loss is a pretty attractive incentive for the general gambling populace. Are the airlines already booked solid?
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, st.tropez97@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Agonpd <agonpd@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > does anyone know if this only applies to freeplay offers from atlantic city
> > > > > casinos? (i assume so, since that's the competition primarily; but so is
> > > > > philly, etc.)?
> > > >
> > > > There's a bit more info on their website now. They will match free slot play offers "from any AC casino" and "A complete AC casino mail piece that includes guest name and address is required. Mail piece will not be returned."
> > > >
> > > > About the matching of other casino offers: http://www.revelresorts.com/events/were-matching-your-july-slot-offers-you-cant-lose
> > > >
> > > > About�the loss rebate: http://www.revelresorts.com/events/all-july-slot-losses-refunded-you-cant-lose���
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also

 

Roulette with friends.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:
>
> I think the big question is what games will be available after August 1 to use the free play rebate on. I would not be surprised to see all 9/6 JOB disappear and I do not believe the Gaming Commission would get involved on this happening.
>
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > From: nightoftheiguana2000@...
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 18:59:52 +0000
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also
> >
> > The NJ gaming regulators are the toughest in the world, the casinos can't even trespass unless a law has been broken, they're not going to let Revel put a black mark on AC gambling. Revel will follow through and not commit advertising fraud or play bait and switch or NJ will take control of the casino, just as they did with the Trop.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leonard <mleon2000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I keep waiting for the asterisk to appear:
> > > Loss refunds are capped at $100,000.*
> > >
> > > *$100,000 is the total amount available to all players under this promotion.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@>
> > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 10:42 AM
> > > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate also
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Â
> > > So are the Vegas and Cali casinos just going to shut down while Revel takes all the July action? No loss gambling for the entire month up to a $100,000 loss is a pretty attractive incentive for the general gambling populace. Are the airlines already booked solid?
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, st.tropez97@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Agonpd <agonpd@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > does anyone know if this only applies to freeplay offers from atlantic city
> > > > > casinos? (i assume so, since that's the competition primarily; but so is
> > > > > philly, etc.)?
> > > >
> > > > There's a bit more info on their website now. They will match free slot play offers "from any AC casino" and "A complete AC casino mail piece that includes guest name and address is required. Mail piece will not be returned."
> > > >
> > > > About the matching of other casino offers: http://www.revelresorts.com/events/were-matching-your-july-slot-offers-you-cant-lose
> > > >
> > > > About�the loss rebate: http://www.revelresorts.com/events/all-july-slot-losses-refunded-you-cant-lose���
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet

 

I feel like Eddie Murphy in Trading Places after hearing the two codgers making a bet about him.
I got married four hours ago so Im guessing I am out too.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:
>
> On last week's Gambling with an Edge"
> radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to
> whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate
> promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to
> be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's
> card. We're looking for other things.
>
>
> But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't
> violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If
> they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.
>
> The "honoring matchplay"
> part of their promotion is not part of the bet.
>
> Neither Richard
> nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we
> suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE
> discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.
>
> Bob
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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RE: [vpFREE] Revel Bet

Very interesting!!! Hopefully all the rules are available in writing at The Revel.

To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
From: bobdancervp@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:26:11 -0700
Subject: [vpFREE] Revel Bet


























On last week's Gambling with an Edge"

radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to

whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate

promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to

be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's

card. We're looking for other things.



But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't

violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If

they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.



The "honoring matchplay"

part of their promotion is not part of the bet.



Neither Richard

nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we

suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE

discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.



Bob





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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[vpFREE] Revel Bet

 

On last week's Gambling with an Edge"
radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to
whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate
promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to
be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's
card. We're looking for other things.

But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't
violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If
they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.

The "honoring matchplay"
part of their promotion is not part of the bet.

Neither Richard
nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we
suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE
discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.

Bob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate

 

If you hit a royal on the first hand, seems like you should call it a night, even though most gamblers will probably try to go for another royal. On the other extreme, if you are down $99,875 and then hit a royal, you should probably continue on in search of second royal. Where's the inflection point? If the royal puts you at least $50,000 ahead, quit, otherwise continue on? There might be some strategy modifications was well. Royal only strategy:?

5RF
4RF
3RF
QJs
KQs, KJs
AKs, AQs, AJs
JTs, QTs, KTs, ATs
J, Q, K, A
draw 5

Something like Royal Deuces might be an interesting game to play.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@...> wrote:
>
> Plus you could take junkets to other casinos on dates good for the freeplay at Revel. There were articles about people with tons of unredeemed Harrah's points, time to use them at Showboat which is next door. Spirit Airlines is almost so cheap you can day trip from certain cities. Revel may not give you a room comp but if you lost 100K it is likely the other card benefits would make it a cheap trip.
>
> My question is why did you mention $150K. If someone did walk in and hit 100K on the first $25 pull, why would you not just leave and go to the Borgata or some other place? Once you are ahead doesn't a loss rebate lose value?
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:
> >
> > NOTI wrote: Most likely they will, unless they have something better to do that
> > weekend. Some will try teaming up on the freeplay collection, but they
> > run the risk of getting caught. If you get unlucky and max out the loss
> > at $100,000, divided by 20 that's $5,000/week. Unless you know where you
> > can get more than $5,000 freeplay on a weekend, you can probably
> > justify a flight from almost anywhere. Revel might actually steal some
> > gamblers from Macau.
> >
> > The week there ends something like Sunday midnight and begins again at Monday 8 a.m. So if you can stay over on Sunday nights, it's 10 trips, not 20, from August 11 through December 8. Even so, it's a big commitment
> >
> > I'm not going to fly there from Vegas --- but it would be easy for me to justify the 10 trips from anywhere east of the Mississippi --- and a few places slightly west of there. This is HUGE. It would be easy for me to play my free play and leave. And while I was in town, play a few other places now that I know I'm going to be back to pick up mailers from those places as well. (Forget the mailers at Revel --- those will be $0 during the promotion in order to pay for the promotion.) This promotion will likely bring in business to several other casinos in town as well. Revel thinks their promotion will hurt other casinos. I think otherwise.
> >
> > One of the main reasons for most of us non-locals not to play in AC is that the typical player reward system there is based on many repeat visits. This 10-to-20 scheduled visits to Revel gets around that drawback. Once you're around this drawback, several casinos in AC have good (games + mailers) combinations. So you play them while the Revel promotion is going on --- and come mid December, stop going to AC.
> >
> > The reason people are talking about the losses instead of the win is that you have to be sure your brakes work well before you go speeding away. Yes the intelligent stopping place goal is to win $150,000 or so before you quit. But there is a large random element and many people will lose whatever they can afford to lend the casino for 5 months. You cannot know beforehand whether you will be one of the winners or the losers, so you need to be sure you are prepared to deal with the multiple trips before you undertake the promotion.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Revel's Loss Rebate

 

A lot of people are wishing on stars. What's to stop them from taking out every VP machine over $1 on Sunday night?
Nothing.
They are NOT (for long anyways) going to let people take what is essentially a freeroll at a $100K royal. One way or another it's not happening. This is a joint whose $5 slots returned an average of 89.5% over the last 4 months.
You have been warned.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@...> wrote:
>
> Peole will tons of points w TR will spend them to stay at Showboat or people will alternate AC junkets and sneak into Revel and bang out their freeplay. Leave at 150k? If you hit a rf @25$ your first pull why not lea ve? As you pull ahead doesnt that lower the value of a rebate?
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:>
> > NOTI wrote: Most likely they will, unless they have something better to do that
> > weekend. Some will try teaming up on the freeplay collection, but they
> > run the risk of getting caught. If you get unlucky and max out the loss
> > at $100,000, divided by 20 that's $5,000/week. Unless you know where you
> > can get more than $5,000 freeplay on a weekend, you can probably
> > justify a flight from almost anywhere. Revel might actually steal some
> > gamblers from Macau.
> >
> > The week there ends something like Sunday midnight and begins again at Monday 8 a.m. So if you can stay over on Sunday nights, it's 10 trips, not 20, from August 11 through December 8. Even so, it's a big commitment
> >
> > I'm not going to fly there from Vegas --- but it would be easy for me to justify the 10 trips from anywhere east of the Mississippi --- and a few places slightly west of there. This is HUGE. It would be easy for me to play my free play and leave. And while I was in town, play a few other places now that I know I'm going to be back to pick up mailers from those places as well. (Forget the mailers at Revel --- those will be $0 during the promotion in order to pay for the promotion.) This promotion will likely bring in business to several other casinos in town as well. Revel thinks their promotion will hurt other casinos. I think otherwise.
> >
> > One of the main reasons for most of us non-locals not to play in AC is that the typical player reward system there is based on many repeat visits. This 10-to-20 scheduled visits to Revel gets around that drawback. Once you're around this drawback, several casinos in AC have good (games + mailers) combinations. So you play them while the Revel promotion is going on --- and come mid December, stop going to AC.
> >
> > The reason people are talking about the losses instead of the win is that you have to be sure your brakes work well before you go speeding away. Yes the intelligent stopping place goal is to win $150,000 or so before you quit. But there is a large random element and many people will lose whatever they can afford to lend the casino for 5 months. You cannot know beforehand whether you will be one of the winners or the losers, so you need to be sure you are prepared to deal with the multiple trips before you undertake the promotion.
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