Re: [vpFREE] Re: XVP --- Legal Questions Sought

 

Cynical_Realist@yahoo.com wrote:

>This may be a bit obtuse

I think you might mean "abstruse." "Obtuse" means dense and simple
minded.

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[vpFREE] Re: XVP --- Legal Questions Sought

 

This may be a bit obtuse, but an interesting question that came up while I was watching some friends play the Table game Ultimate Texas Hold'Em.The casino had a $5.00 minimum table.  The player hit the bottom end of a Straight Flush.  It was possible that the dealer could hit the top end of the Straight Flush.  So for simplicity:

Player: 3s 4s
Board: 5s - 6s - 7s - X - X
Dealer  8s 9s (hypothetically)

The player had made a Trips Side Bet and a Bad Beat Side Bet for $5.00 each.  The Trips side Bet pays 40 to 1 for $200 on a Straight Flush.

The Bad Beat pays based on the lower of the losing hands between the Player and the House.  If the Dealer had the Top End of the Straight Flush, it would pay 10,000 to 1 for a SFL losing to a higher SFL.  On a $5.00 bet this would have been $50,000!

The dealer in this situation did not have the SFL, but the dealer pointed to the sign on the table that limited the Casino's aggregate payout on an individual hand to $25,000 per player.

Can the Casino not pay out the full advertized payout on a Table Game when a player is betting the minimum bet?

Would the answer change if they allowed you to bet $1 to $25 on the Side Bet  VS. The casino required you to bet a minimum of $5.00 on the Bad Beat Side Bet?

(I'm sure this has come up on other table games before too, where the casino tried to duck liability based on an aggregate payout per hand.  i.e. Pai Gow, Mississipi Stud)  I've seen some Aggregate Payouts per Table, and others Per Player on and individual hand.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

Again sorry, the first case was "Queens" DDS and the second case was "Jacks" DDS.
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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

I'm sorry a miscalculation my part, when I'm wrong I admit it. N(4 card open ended straights or 4 card flushes) = 5128 and not 5152. Therefore in "Jacks" DDS Probability(Doubling Down) = 0.2492 and not 0.2493. The expected action per hand = 1.2492 original bets and not 1.2493. Likewise in "Queens" DDS Probability(Doubling Down) = 0.2501 and not 0.2502. The expected action per hand = 1.2501 original bets and not 1.2502.

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

I very much appreciate you consideration for my eyes.

Thank You
CF



In case anybody's interested: In Double Down Stud (DDS) there are 52C4 = 720725   different starting 4 card hands (order doesn't count) as Alan noted. Here is the   number of starting 4 card hands of various categories (mathematical calculations   not shown to save Cardfathers eyes)     N(4 card open ended straights or 4 card   flushes) = 5152.                           N(Pair (6's or higher)) = 57024.                 N(Two Pair) = 2808.                            N(3 of a kind) = 2496.                                 N(4 of a kind) = 13.                                 N(4 card hands to double in   "Queens" DDS) = 67493.                         Probability(Doubling Down) =   0.2493.       The expected action per hand = 1.2493 original bets. In "Jacks"   DDS you could also double AKQJ (not suited). This adds an additional 252 hands   to double.                                       N(4 card hands to double on   "Jacks" DDS) = 67745.                                             Probability(Doubling Do   wn) = 0.2502.     The expected action per hand = 1.2502 original bets.    Sent from my iPhone    ------------------------------------  Posted by: nordo123@aol.com  ------------------------------------    vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm      ------------------------------------    Yahoo Groups Links    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/    <*> Your email settings:      Individual Email | Traditional    <*> To change settings online go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/join      (Yahoo! ID required)    <*> To change settings via email:      vpFREE-digest@yahoogroups.com       vpFREE-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:      https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

In case anybody's interested: In Double Down Stud (DDS) there are 52C4 = 720725 different starting 4 card hands (order doesn't count) as Alan noted. Here is the number of starting 4 card hands of various categories (mathematical calculations not shown to save Cardfathers eyes) N(4 card open ended straights or 4 card flushes) = 5152. N(Pair (6's or higher)) = 57024. N(Two Pair) = 2808. N(3 of a kind) = 2496. N(4 of a kind) = 13. N(4 card hands to double in "Queens" DDS) = 67493. Probability(Doubling Down) = 0.2493. The expected action per hand = 1.2493 original bets. In "Jacks" DDS you could also double AKQJ (not suited). This adds an additional 252 hands to double. N(4 card hands to double on "Jacks" DDS) = 67745. Probability(Doubling Down) = 0.2502. The expected action per hand = 1.2502 original bets.

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[vpFREE] LVSun: SLS Las Vegas is open for business

 

LVSun: SLS Las Vegas is open for business

http://www.lasvegassun.com/vegasdeluxe/2014/aug/23/sls-las-vegas-open-business-lets-go-have-some-fun/

or

http://tinyurl.com/klg5bkd

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of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
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[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

Thank you Alan for confirming my numbers. You did make some small mistakes as I am quite sure that 5.264% is your loss in "Queens" DDS over "Jacks" DDS based on hands. You have 5.2402%. Any way you did satisfy my curiosity about IGT's 0.2% edge that Bob Dancer was given was based on action and not hands. Thanks Alan!

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[vpFREE] Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 22 AUG 2014

 

Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 22 AUG 2014

NICE HOTEL ROOMS

http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=3601

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[vpFREE] Re: Multi Shot Video Poker

 

I tried to Google this up and found very little in the game, and what little I found was not on AGS website. It was in a casino gaming magazine. And I'm not convinced this is even a full pay game yet unless you can play normal video poker on it by bettng 5 credits a hand w/o multipliers . IGT has a newer game called "multiwin poker" that forces you to play the"gimmick" and 12/6 JoB is not close to full pay in that game. Did other paytables look shorted? I'll be in Vegas early next month and I'll take a look.

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[vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Revel in Atlantic City to close week earlier than slated

 

I think that all of the casinos are dishonest.  What make things worse is that the casino employees generally don't know the rules and/or provide misinformation, not because they're dishonest, but because senior management doesn't tell them anything, and the never cover all the possibilities.  I don't know how much of this is incompetence and how much by design.  We wouldn't have these problems if the Federal government regulated these promotions in a similar manner to how they regulate any contest by anyone other than a casino.

As far as the smoking, I found it amusing (but sad) when in their "We Made Mistakes" campaign they claimed that banning smoking was a mistake, when in reality it was the only good thing they did.  Although the non-smoking sections are somewhat more bearable to play in, any level of exposure to secondhand smoke is dangerous, and once you allow it anywhere, a lot of drug addicted inconsiderate smokers will break the rules and smoke wherever they want.  Casinos cater to smokers and don't want to enforce the rules, and the Revel barely has any security.

The "You Can't Lose" promotion was the absolute worst thing they did.  Before I knew they were pulling 9/6 Jacks or Better and everything over $5, the thought occurred to me that this might be a good idea.  My main problem was that I didn't have anywhere close to $100,000 to lose, combined with the hardship of having to return 20x to collect the money.  I didn't necessarily think they would try to rip me off and not pay, but I did consider the possibility of bankruptcy.

The problem with "You Can't Lose" wasn't so much the promotion itself, but how they messed things up for many of their customers, to prevent a few people from winning.  I only play 9/6 Jacks or Better.  When they pull those machines, I can no longer play there.  Even if they just pulled them for a month, the fact is that I was a customer, trying to earn points, get rewards, etc.  Whatever goal I might be trying to accomplish ends as soon as they pull those machines.  And now I have no confidence in their reliability.  Why should I make a decision to give them a lot of my play, when now they've made it clear that they can pull my game at any time, whenever they want?  What if I'm trying to achieve some reward, I'm 90% there, I have to return one or two more times before the end of the year to reach my goal, and now they pull the machines again.  That didn't happen, but how do I know that it won't?  I understand that any casino can do that at any time, but the Revel actually did it.

I can see that perhaps they don't care about people like me who they only make a 0.46% profit on, but what about all $10 and $25 players, who may not play the optimal game with the optimal strategy, who have had their games removed as well.  It makes no sense to alienate those people.

I think this was the most incompetently run casino in history, or at least what I've seen in Atlantic City.  What I liked best was that it was fairly easy for me to get comped rooms, and they had free internet access.  As a computer programmer, I can work from anywhere with an internet connection.  There were several days where I was able to check in on a Thursday night and "work from home" on Friday in order to take advantage of more promotions.  I'm not going to do this again, because I refuse to pay $15 for the "privilege" of being able to work remotely.

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

Bob, can you really play this game at 2,500 hands per hour?  I know you are a professional, but that still seems incredible.  Playing 9/6 Jacks or Better I normally play 600 but can get up to around 675-700.  I've seen people on occasion that looked like they were probably playing 1000.  I realize this requires less thought and less buttons to press, but I would think it would be difficult to play this at even double the speed of 9/6 Jacks or Better.  Do you mind if I ask your speed at 9/6 Jacks or Better (or any game where you know the strategy well)?

 
This is a stud game. 9/6 Jacks is a draw game. Stud games are MUCH faster.

My actual speed on this game was an estimate. I didn't play it because the pay schedule sucked.

Bob





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Posted by: Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com>
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[vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

Calculating the EV is a lot less complicated than the standard video poker game, because you don't have to calculate the EV of 32 possible decisions and pick the best one, plus there are a lot fewer hands to analyze.  There are 270,725 possible 4 card combinations, 52!/(48!x4!).  I wrote something in Visual FoxPro to generate a table of all possible hands, then get the number of possible cards (out of the 48 remaining) that make each paying hand, multiplied by the payouts.  If I bothered to account for equivalent hands with different suits, I'm sure the number of hands would be a lot lower.  I took that total payout for each hand and subtracted 48.  If the result was positive, I doubled it.  I then summed up all the numbers, divided that by 48, and then divided by 270,725.

Assuming that you are supposed to factor in the doubled bets, I get 100.2049% for Jacks or Better, and 96.0082% for Queens or Better.  I could have made some mistakes, but my numbers are pretty close.  If you don't factor in the additional money bet when you double down, I am getting 100.2573% for Jacks or Better and 95.0171% for Queens or Better.

Bob, can you really play this game at 2,500 hands per hour?  I know you are a professional, but that still seems incredible.  Playing 9/6 Jacks or Better I normally play 600 but can get up to around 675-700.  I've seen people on occasion that looked like they were probably playing 1000.  I realize this requires less thought and less buttons to press, but I would think it would be difficult to play this at even double the speed of 9/6 Jacks or Better.  Do you mind if I ask your speed at 9/6 Jacks or Better (or any game where you know the strategy well)?

Alan

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