[vpFREE] Re: Graduating Paybacks on Slots

 

I realize that it isn't the smartest thing to do but I've gotten so used to losing $1000 or even $2000 per trip on VP, I figure I might as well lose it on slots and have some fun and have the casino shower me with benefits.

George

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bo Farrwood" <bfarrwood@...> wrote:
>
> As far as I know a machine can pay whatever the casino wants it to in expectation baed on bet size as long as it meets gaming requirements (someone told me around 85%). There are a lot of machines that do this, for example rescue spin machines by Aruze give you an extra bonus game if you are max betting which obviously adds value since you dont have to bet for the bonus games.
>
> Casinos should make slots play this way, if they are holding 4% on a dollar bet then a 2 dollar bet should be a hold of 2%, otherwise, players would have less incentive to play bigger, as all they gain is extra variance.
>
> And also I'd like to point out that playing 98% games over 99-101% games just because you havnt hit a royal yet isnt the smartest thing to do, but if you just want entertainment then yeah flashy light are I guess better than a repetitive deck of cads. GL
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "George" <wxmen@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I realize that the RF and progressives require a higher bet but these are spelled out in plain view for anyone who cares to look. I was talking about a slot game where you may select 1X, 2X, 5X, or 10X the line bet for example. I thought that the payback% had to be identical for all multipliers of the line bet.
> >
> > George
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pyiddy" <pyiddy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Been a standard feature on most slot machines for a very long time!
> > >
> > > Think about the Royal Flush payback on video poker which basically was
> > > "borrowed" from the slot machine practice of paying a bigger multiple on a
> > > max coin bet.
> > >
> > > Many video slots now have bonus progressives that can only be won by playing
> > > max bet while playing for lesser bets causes bonus bets to be paid at fixed
> > > multiples.
> > >
> > > Also so called "buy a pay" slots may have a much greater shortfall when you
> > > play less than max. A modern example is the original Wheel of Fortune slot
> > > where if you played 1 or 2 coins, the "Spin" symbol on the 3rd reel would
> > > win only 5 times your bet instead of the wheel spin which averaged 26 times
> > > your bet.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > mleist
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:46 AM
> > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Graduating Paybacks on Slots
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Comments please."
> > >
> > > If you feel that a 98% (doubtful, but sure possible) slot machine is better
> > > than a 99.54% (or greater) VP machine I'm not sure what other comment would
> > > be helpful.
> > >
> > > People play for different reasons... what's yours? Do what makes you happy,
> > > seriously, but just don't expect logic to back it up. :)
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "George"
> > > <wxmen@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > After 2 1/2 years of bad luck playing VP, I decided to try the slots. I
> > > recently came upon a new IGT penny machine at the Reno Peppermill. What
> > > caught my eye was signage that said something to the effect that higher bets
> > > have higher payback percentages. There are 5 buttons, allowing for 50, 100,
> > > 150, 200, and 250 credit bets. The 100, 150, and 200 buttons say "higher
> > > payback" and the 250 says "highest payback." I thought it was illegal (at
> > > leaast in NV) to change the payback for different bet amounts but apparently
> > > not. I'm wondering if anyone has heard of graduating paybacks and what the
> > > range might be from lowest to highest. The IGT web site says that this game
> > > has paybacks from 85% to 98% but is that the range from the 50 credit bet to
> > > the 250 credit bet? I don't see how this machine could advertise a specific
> > > payback percentage since they don't know what the average size bet would be.
> > > BTW, the machine was "The Little Shop of Horrors" and I won $630 on a $2.50
> > > bet, more than I've won with larger bets on VP in 2 1/2 years. It took 20
> > > minutes for the bonus to playout. Needless to say, I'm even less inclined to
> > > play VP now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > George
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 

All the banks with full pay games, located in front of valet, are gone.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derangedmutant040925" <derangedmutant040925@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> >
> > I sorry to report that the progressive FPDW have been permanently removed. Or at least that's what the casino manager told me. The new owners put their foot down and insisted that there were to be no loss leaders.
> >
> > The old staff fought as hard as they could to keep them, but to no avail.
> >
> > ~FK
> >
> This was viewed as inevitable, but it has apparently happened much more swiftly than everyone thought. The Borg is quick to eliminate any resistance.
>
> Does anyone know if the machines with FP Joker, etc. a couple of banks over from the former FPDW have been similarly obliterated? I have played those machines on occasions when the FPDW were all locked up. If CE is in their usual brutally efficient slash-and-burn mode, they won't let those games live, either.
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 

OK these are some interesting suggestions. After my staycation I'll look into them.

What on earth is the "Frank Standard"?

Endothermic & Bipedal is my current standard.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> >
> > The reason for both M & Palms changes is the same. Nameless corporate oversight & pencil pushing micromanagement. It would not be wise to try another FranknBob progressive at a casino that has gone corporate.
> >
> > But that doesn't mean I can't find someplace that still has one captain at the helm. Any thoughts folks?
> >
>
>
> What Tom has suggested sounds like a good idea, but it would have to be something like a 1% overall meter-rise with those better schedules. Divide by 8, that's .125 to each. Can that be done?
>
> How about Terrible's? Or Rampart? Silverton? Tuscany? Treasure Island?
>
> The two Arizona Charlie's and the Strat?
>
> How about the Village Pubs? Get rid of the crappy tables with the 4-oak Bingo and implement good progressives, system-wide. In fact, get them to chuck the whole Gamblers Bonus thing.
>
> lol C'mon, Frank, I ain't asking much.
>
> Why don't you STAY in Vegas and open YOUR OWN joint, Frank? Good pay tables, and constant violin music in the background 24/7. It'll be great. Ooh, and the cocktail girls would have to pass the Frank Standard.
>

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[vpFREE] Mrs. Flusher and MotherFlusher Trip Report

 
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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 

Just to let you all know that a bunch of full pay machines are gone. Was at the palms an hour ago and the 10 upright dollar progressive DB machines are now 9/7. All the full pay machines that were near the FPDW bank are missing completely. Didn't check for the other 10/7 $1 machines but you know those will be gone eventually.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> >
> > The reason for both M & Palms changes is the same. Nameless corporate oversight & pencil pushing micromanagement. It would not be wise to try another FranknBob progressive at a casino that has gone corporate.
> >
> > But that doesn't mean I can't find someplace that still has one captain at the helm. Any thoughts folks?
> >
>
>
> What Tom has suggested sounds like a good idea, but it would have to be something like a 1% overall meter-rise with those better schedules. Divide by 8, that's .125 to each. Can that be done?
>
> How about Terrible's? Or Rampart? Silverton? Tuscany? Treasure Island?
>
> The two Arizona Charlie's and the Strat?
>
> How about the Village Pubs? Get rid of the crappy tables with the 4-oak Bingo and implement good progressives, system-wide. In fact, get them to chuck the whole Gamblers Bonus thing.
>
> lol C'mon, Frank, I ain't asking much.
>
> Why don't you STAY in Vegas and open YOUR OWN joint, Frank? Good pay tables, and constant violin music in the background 24/7. It'll be great. Ooh, and the cocktail girls would have to pass the Frank Standard.
>

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[vpFREE] Re: M update

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:
>
> I'll input on this Frank since I agree with Mike. I'll start off by explaining why having others "watch" trainees is inconclusive to the point of being irrelevant.
> The irrelevancy of having others "watch for accuracy and errors" is simply adding another imperfect parameter to the equation. As such, multiple assumptions and conclusions are arrived at that really have no basis in science.

This whole point you are making is GIGO since what matters in evaluating the efficacy of a video poker player is not error rate per se, but the effect of what errors the player DOES make on EV. For instance: a player who makes an incorrect hold in FPDW because he failed to perceive a penalty card may cost himself 0.02 bets by doing so. Compare this with something basic, like holding KK instead of KQJs. Also, the frequency with which a situation comes up matters just as much. Again defaulting to FPDW, an error like holding all five cards from 22266 costs (if memory serves) 0.1 bets, but the frequency of dealt 5OAK with three deuces is so small, the impact of that error on overall EV is minuscule.

All that said, the technique of "qualifying" potential prog team members by watching them predates computer video poker practice programs, so it may be more of an artifact than anything else. Certainly, you can tell whether a player is skilled or not simply by watching him play for a few minutes. Quantifying his skill (i.e., how close to optimal he plays) is considerably more difficult, and consequently inadequate.

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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> The reason for both M & Palms changes is the same. Nameless corporate oversight & pencil pushing micromanagement. It would not be wise to try another FranknBob progressive at a casino that has gone corporate.
>
> But that doesn't mean I can't find someplace that still has one captain at the helm. Any thoughts folks?
>

What Tom has suggested sounds like a good idea, but it would have to be something like a 1% overall meter-rise with those better schedules. Divide by 8, that's .125 to each. Can that be done?

How about Terrible's? Or Rampart? Silverton? Tuscany? Treasure Island?

The two Arizona Charlie's and the Strat?

How about the Village Pubs? Get rid of the crappy tables with the 4-oak Bingo and implement good progressives, system-wide. In fact, get them to chuck the whole Gamblers Bonus thing.

lol C'mon, Frank, I ain't asking much.

Why don't you STAY in Vegas and open YOUR OWN joint, Frank? Good pay tables, and constant violin music in the background 24/7. It'll be great. Ooh, and the cocktail girls would have to pass the Frank Standard.

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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> I sorry to report that the progressive FPDW have been permanently removed. Or at least that's what the casino manager told me. The new owners put their foot down and insisted that there were to be no loss leaders.
>
> The old staff fought as hard as they could to keep them, but to no avail.
>
> ~FK
>
This was viewed as inevitable, but it has apparently happened much more swiftly than everyone thought. The Borg is quick to eliminate any resistance.

Does anyone know if the machines with FP Joker, etc. a couple of banks over from the former FPDW have been similarly obliterated? I have played those machines on occasions when the FPDW were all locked up. If CE is in their usual brutally efficient slash-and-burn mode, they won't let those games live, either.

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[vpFREE] Delete!

 


I'm not sure how I got a virus but a spam mail was sent out somehow through my e-mail account, and I never send out spam mail! Sorry about that. Please delete it. We think it is part of a virus on my computer. Uhg!
Thanks!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 

The reason for both M & Palms changes is the same. Nameless corporate oversight & pencil pushing micromanagement. It would not be wise to try another FranknBob progressive at a casino that has gone corporate.

But that doesn't mean I can't find someplace that still has one captain at the helm. Any thoughts folks?

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
>
> Well, got to admit I'm not really sorry to see them go , as they
> consistently beat me for the last couple of years and I'm 2 royals short to
> catch up. Some pros' will be looking for new places to play, or maybe
> worse - they'll start double action playing the $2 10/7 machines on multiple
> point days and force Maloof to shut them down next.
> Frank - here's your chance... convince Maloff to convert these machines to
> Frank and Bob progs, but with better starting basis like Ugly ducks, 7/5
> bonus, 8/6 bonus Deluxe, etc.
>
> best...Tom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank" <frank@...>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:58 AM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Bad Tidings from the Palms
>
>
> >I sorry to report that the progressive FPDW have been permanently removed.
> >Or at least that's what the casino manager told me. The new owners put
> >their foot down and insisted that there were to be no loss leaders.
> >
> > The old staff fought as hard as they could to keep them, but to no avail.
> >
> > ~FK
> >
> >
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
>
they'll start double action playing the $2 10/7 machines on multiple
> point days and force Maloof to shut them down next.
>

All 99.73%+ games are excluded from point multipliers.

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[vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

 

Say it isn't so!!!
I just booked three nights to stay there because of the FPDW.
I guess I'll cancel and go elsewhere.
What would you suggest that is close to the action "strip" and reasonable.
Red Rock is too far away I think.
I personally think it is a poor move. I know I've spent a lot of money there chasing the progressive (to no avail). We eat in the restaruants and stay there and lose playing other games.
Brad
Amarillo (won't be peeing in the 6th urinal at the Palms)

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> I sorry to report that the progressive FPDW have been permanently removed. Or at least that's what the casino manager told me. The new owners put their foot down and insisted that there were to be no loss leaders.
>
> The old staff fought as hard as they could to keep them, but to no avail.
>
> ~FK
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Frank's guest from Australia

 

Bob Bartop wrote:

> I'm a little confused about "pokie" machines.

As already said, a pokie machine is a slot machine. They are called "poker machines" because they use card values (A, K, Q, J, 10, 9, 8) instead of fruits or other symbols. (I think the "Deal or No Deal" slots in Vegas are pokies.)

> I'm still curious if they have video poker, like we have in the U.S.

I am under the impression that they exist in Gold Coast (Queensland) area casinos, but not at the big casinos in Sydney or Melbourne. I have also seen them in small clubs, but the ones in clubs have very bad pay schedules.

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Re: [vpFREE] Bad Tidings from the Palms

 

Well, got to admit I'm not really sorry to see them go , as they
consistently beat me for the last couple of years and I'm 2 royals short to
catch up. Some pros' will be looking for new places to play, or maybe
worse - they'll start double action playing the $2 10/7 machines on multiple
point days and force Maloof to shut them down next.
Frank - here's your chance... convince Maloff to convert these machines to
Frank and Bob progs, but with better starting basis like Ugly ducks, 7/5
bonus, 8/6 bonus Deluxe, etc.

best...Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank" <frank@progressivevp.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:58 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Bad Tidings from the Palms

>I sorry to report that the progressive FPDW have been permanently removed.
>Or at least that's what the casino manager told me. The new owners put
>their foot down and insisted that there were to be no loss leaders.
>
> The old staff fought as hard as they could to keep them, but to no avail.
>
> ~FK
>
>
>

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