[vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

I think the FrankNBobs are a great idea. It will be unfortunate if they don't work out. And I do appreciate the effort Frank and Bob and the M have put into them to at least give them a try. Like most things in gambling, there will always be critics, what counts is what happens on the casino floor.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@...> wrote:
>
> Frank wants to hear ideas that will be good for the M and good for the pros currently hitting that play every day so a reduction in the meter rise is not going to work. If the actual pros stop playing the bank it would be a lot more profitable for the M and it wouldn't need a change. Out of curiosity Frank you keep mentioning that it was a big request from VPfree posters to have this type of progressive. The only person riding the FrankNBobs kool-aid seems to be BartopBob. How many actual VPree members play this bank that made this request?
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:49:55 -0000, Bob Bartop wrote:
> >
> > >--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, jaycee5353@ wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Here is another thought on the meter movement consept.
> > >> You could reduce the meter when the games go positive.
> > >> For example at $1800 the meter reduces by 80% for the
> > >> balance of time until hit.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >On these games it is more like $2700, not $1800.
> > >
> > >Anyway, I don't want to sound rude, but this is a lousy idea. Nothing personal. lol
> >
> > LOL indeed! You must be expressing a player's perspective. That's
> > the worst idea I've heard from my point of view, also, but if you
> > owned the M, would you regard it as a lousy idea? Barley's didn't
> > tolerate this arrangement for long. I can't imagine often having
> > $4500 quarter royals being optimal for them.
> >
>

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[vpFREE] Eastside Cannery machine locations

 

The database indicates there are .25 Bonus machines "scattered around the casino".

Can someone please tell me specifically where they are? I could only find 7/5 Bonus in .25 there.

Thanks

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

Bob Bartop wrote:

>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@...> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> If the meter were 20% on each of 8 meters, so that the average jackpot
>> was well into 5 or possibly 6 figures, would you say that they were
>> giving up too much or would you say that the additional play that
>> would encourage would help the casino's bottom line?
>
>
>No, of course I would not say that. But it isn't 20%, it's 4%. I was fully aware of that when I made my comment about continued play.
>
>So I still don't understand when you said they "must stop being profitable to the casino at some point". I don't get it.

The managers of 100s of other casinos believe that offering anything
significant to pros in the form of attractive progressives is not
optimal for them. They crop up occasionally, but they never last very
long. The managers of the M seem to want to prove the managers of
every other casino wrong. I don't think it will take them long to
realize that they can make more money by offering less meter
progression.

>If a single line quarter machine has 7-5 Bonus Poker (98%) on it with a 1% meter rise, doesn't the casino continue to profit regardless of whether the jackpot is $2000, $4000, or even $10,000? It's essentially like a continuous 99% game for the casino. No?

Theoretically, yes. But it still isn't necessarily optimal for the
casino. There may be all kinds of room for improvement. What if
stopping the meter at $2000 didn't reduce play at all? That would
almost certainly mean that they should stop the meter at lower than
$2000. And there's always opportunity cost. What if a penny slot
machine would be more profitable than even the optimal progressive?

If I managed a casino, I'd hang a sign outside saying "pros welcome."
Then I'd fire all my consultants. Then I'd wait for the pros to show
up and as soon as they sat down, I'd change what they were playing
until they left.

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[vpFREE] Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 11 JUL 2011

 

Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 11 JUL 2011

"It´s Personal - Part 1"

http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=1363

<a href="http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=1363">
http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=1363</a>

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

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[vpFREE] Re: Coming full circle

 

I like to hear things like this. People shouldn't play for comps to cover their trip. You controlling the trip, not the casino, is way it should be.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@... wrote:

>
> In summary, we've had such a good time lately on those trips where we took
> time to do things other than all gambling that we might go back to that
> model again -- where paying for room & board isn't such a nasty concept.
>

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[vpFREE] Coming full circle

 

Before I started gambling in 1994, we used to do trips to the east coast &
Canada. Those trips never stopped but were much less frequent due to the
time for gambling trips & because our trips for Broadway theater were
replaced by shows in LV & by joining a theater group in San Jose. In the last
month, it seems like we're returning to our old ways with the last two trips
we've taken to Atlantic City & Windsor, Canada.

What is becoming a characteristic of a lot of trips lately is that I
restrict gambling to only one casino even when there's a lot of casinos around.
What this does is allow time for other activities that we used to do before
gambling became so prominent in our lives.

AC 7* Signature trip -- gambled only one day at Harrahs on what was
supposed to be a 5-day stay but we cut it down to 3 days so that we could spend
more time in Wilmington DE (1 hr from AC) where there are 4 duPont mansions.
Even with 2 days we were able to only cover 2 mansions (Longwood Gardens &
Winterthur). This dichotomy of switching from AC to Wilmington made it
seem like we had taken 2 separate trips because it was so relaxing to do
something completely different. We had such a great time at Longwood that I'll
be scanning my AC mail looking for an excuse to return so that we can also
revisit Longwood & see the other 2 mansions that we missed.

Caesars Windsor -- this was my annual 7* trip which I wrapped around a
backgammon tournament that my son wanted to go to in Novi, MI. Again I gambled
only one day at Windsor & cut my stay from 5 days to 4 in order to spend
more time at the tournament in which I also played. Unfortunately I didn't
get any time to visit any of the local attractions but we had such a good
time that we're planning on coming back next year during which we plan to:

--stay on the US side. Due to late arrival & the amount of time spent
playing at the tournament, 3 of my 4 crossings were after midnight & each time
Canadian customs interrogated me at length though each successive crossing
was shorter. (BTW they don't like the term "interrogate" which I used
without thinking of the connotation, "question" would have been a smarter choice
but I couldn't think of any other term when I was interrogated.) I think
the problem I had was that late at night, they have plenty of time to
practice & also I learned to not carry a lot of money. Everybody told me that US
customs was much tougher but my experience was the opposite &, on my last
crossing, I even got some helpful advice from an officer who took an interest
when he saw where I was from.

--Some local backgammon players that we befriended suggested that we visit
some of the sights with them such as the Henry Ford Museum near Dearborn &
the Motown Museum.

--Probably gamble at MGM, LV in hopes of getting an invite to play & stay
at MGM, Detroit or maybe I should look into Greektown or Motor City.
Haven't thought this one though.

In summary, we've had such a good time lately on those trips where we took
time to do things other than all gambling that we might go back to that
model again -- where paying for room & board isn't such a nasty concept.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote: Frank, you know I respect you, I respect your intellect and your mathematical ability. But you are quite wrong about one thing.

Fishing SUCKS!

FK Reply:

Not if you go with a Playboy Playmate & some 15 year old wine:)

My best fishing story (It is Micky Crimm-ish) (TRUE)

I had just gotten off work (Restaurant Photographer) at Harvey's in Lake Tahoe and swung by my friend Gunnar's house for drinks, at 3:30 am in the morning he says, "Let's go down to the river and catch some breakfast." Not having any good arguments as to why this was impossible, we headed out the back door and a short 15 minute hike later had our lines and feet in the South Truckee (near Myers).

30 min, 3 bears, and no fish later he suggested we try a small lake he knew that was near by.

We got there, cast in our lines and before I could open another beer got a hit. I reeled in a nice rainbow trout. To my amazement, Mr. Gunnderson also had himself a nice trout, slightly larger than mine. Being a full blooded Viking from Iceland most of Gunnar was "slightly larger than mine" (taller, longer hair, bigger chest, etc...) Determined not to let him beat me in yet another category, I cast back in a before you could say, "Viking envy" I had a huge 10 pounder on the line. Arrgh, but so did Gunnar???

What on earth was going on? In the next ten min we both caught another 5 fish and still hadn't cracked a beer. Fishing, or so I had thought, was primarily about drinking and far less about catching fish. Somewhere along the forest path I must have missed the Twilight Zone sign clearly stating that we were now the gods of fishing. Egos were expanding.

Up walks a park ranger. He looks as if he's about to say something, but hasn't quite figured out what it is or how to say it. We are expecting a request for fishing licenses and begin digging them out. To our surprise the question he asks is:

"You boys eight years old?"

A little taken aback we shyly answer, "Uh no".

He says, "You know we just stocked this lake with FOUR THOUSAND STARVING TROUT for the junior fishing championship tomorrow morning?"

Apparently, the look on our faces must have told the whole story, because he did not even wait for a reply. He was sure we were guilty, but our crime was clearly ignorance, and I imagine he figured correctly that our embarrassment was punishment enough. He turned around and walked off quickly, a few moments later we heard laughter from behind the trees. Apparently he just couldn't hold it in any longer.

We put back the still living fish, packed up, and quite literally went home with our tails between our legs, egos deflated with the words "FOUR THOUSAND STARVING TROUT" ringing in our heads.

Well at least I think we would have given the eight year olds a run for their money, as long as it wasn't a drinking contest.

~FK

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[vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

Hi Frank,

I just want to let you know I do appreciate your efforts very much and am counting down the days when I'll be able to see and play these progressives. 3 more months and I will be 5 weeks in Vegas, I hope they are not killed by then, but will get picked up by otter casino's.

Thanks for your great ideas, sharing them and put them in action!

Jackie

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

>
> As to why I was trying to make the bank more enduring, it is for the same reason I thought it up and pitched it in the first place; for the posters out there that asked me to bring back fast progressives. Seemed like a good idea to me since this was what I used to do for a living back before 2001.
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 


I think my idea of reducing the meter rate AFTER the jackpot is at 100% plus
would allow the house to hold the meter reduction until hit.
Take the California pg just hit at 19,000. I'm guessing that was 104% play
or better. I don't know what the meter movement was but reducing
it at say 10,000 would not have lost any players.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>

>
>

Frank, you know I respect you, I respect your intellect and your mathematical ability. But you are quite wrong about one thing.

Fishing SUCKS!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>

>
> I also find this dynamic enlightened. Play correctly make money. Play incorrectly lose money. Seems fair to me...of course what the hell do I know...I know I want a vacation, fishing sounds nice.
>

Frank, you know I respect you, I respect your intellect and your mathematical ability. But you are quite wrong about one thing.

Fishing SUCKS!

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[vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

You are correct. The pros all by themselves should almost be enough to keep the meters high and playable as they continuously chase their own tails.

Conventional progressives require close to 99% ploppy action to get to the 1% where pros will play them.

The way these progressives are designed the ratio is much closer to 50/50 and the pros themselves then act as pumpers for the ploppies, because they will always walk away from most of their MR. The active meter only gets 1/8th of the total rise.

There is no such thing as completely fair in a zero-sum activity, but this is about as close as it gets in the world if progressives.

~FK

P.S. I have enough suggestions now to come up with a new proposal. To free up vpFREE I suggest you send any additional recommendations to my private email.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@...> wrote: Im still lost on this. Even when the royals were in the mid $3000 range I only saw one seat taken on the dollar and none on the quarter. I must be really missing the time of day these people play. With the 4% meter rise and the pros running 40k a day each in action. Theyre making the meter themselves not from the countless ploppies packing the seats.

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[vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> A 25% reduction in the meter-rise would make the games exceed 100% return approximately 1/16 as often, and would reduce the playability of the bank by around 93%, leaving only 7% of the value it currently has.
>
>

Wow, that's amazing, to me anyway. I naturally don't understand it, but I do take your word for it. I believe you. So that answers my question about lowering it to 3%.

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[vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@...> wrote:
>

>
> If the meter were 20% on each of 8 meters, so that the average jackpot
> was well into 5 or possibly 6 figures, would you say that they were
> giving up too much or would you say that the additional play that
> would encourage would help the casino's bottom line?

No, of course I would not say that. But it isn't 20%, it's 4%. I was fully aware of that when I made my comment about continued play.

So I still don't understand when you said they "must stop being profitable to the casino at some point". I don't get it.

If a single line quarter machine has 7-5 Bonus Poker (98%) on it with a 1% meter rise, doesn't the casino continue to profit regardless of whether the jackpot is $2000, $4000, or even $10,000? It's essentially like a continuous 99% game for the casino. No?

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

 

I thought we were looking for an idea that would serve both the player and the house.

-----Original Message-----
From: 007 <007@embarqmail.com>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 11:57 am
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:49:55 -0000, Bob Bartop wrote:

>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, jaycee5353@... wrote:
>
>>
>> Here is another thought on the meter movement consept.
>> You could reduce the meter when the games go positive.
>> For example at $1800 the meter reduces by 80% for the
>> balance of time until hit.
>>
>>
>
>
>On these games it is more like $2700, not $1800.
>
>Anyway, I don't want to sound rude, but this is a lousy idea. Nothing personal. lol

LOL indeed! You must be expressing a player's perspective. That's
the worst idea I've heard from my point of view, also, but if you
owned the M, would you regard it as a lousy idea? Barley's didn't
tolerate this arrangement for long. I can't imagine often having
$4500 quarter royals being optimal for them.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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