[vpFREE] Players Club Info and Comparisons

 

Hi.

I've have written a number of players club overviews and comparisons on my blog that might be of interest to the Group.

Players Club Comps and Tier Advancement Cheat Sheet
http://markslasvegas.markanduss.com/players-club-cheat-sheet/

The Cosmopolitan's Identity Players Club
http://wp.me/p2brN5-af

Hard Rock Hotel's Backstage Pass Players Club
http://markslasvegas.markanduss.com/backstage-pass-players-club/

Total Rewards
http://wp.me/p2brN5-16

Total Rewards Free Shows update
http://wp.me/p2brN5-ay

mlife
http://wp.me/p2brN5-19

mlife program changes starting October 1
http://markslasvegas.markanduss.com/mlife-program-changes/

Club Grazie Players Club for the Venetian and Palazzo
http://markslasvegas.markanduss.com/club-grazie/

There is a lot of other information on the site as well.

Take Care,
Mark
http://markslasvegas.markanduss.com/

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Re: [vpFREE] Digest Number 7968

 

Most of the points below are spot-on -- as the player being barred from blackjack, I understood and accepted the practice by casinos more readily than my friends who were not the victim.

In fact, the general public's perception that a "good player" who "uses their brain" should not be punished by not being allowed to play, is a perception that probably keeps the casinos somewhat in check from getting too far out of line with their barrings.

And of course, the public's CORRECT perception that some games can be beat by skill is what keeps them playing, even though they don't bother to learn the skill that is necessary to beat the game!? If they knew that even a skillful player couldn't win long-term, then the only players left would be the absolute gamblers -- who are, of course, the overwhelming majority of casino players anyway.

The casinos should understand that even many of the players who can count cards, can not do so with a low enough error rate to maintain a positive EV against the casino, and even more of those players do not understand what an adequate bankroll is and proper bet-sizing to be able to survive the inevitable variance of the game. I would guess that 90% of "card counters" are not successful, for a variety of reasons, under-bankrolling (or over-betting relative to the bankroll, same idea) being probably the most common "error."

While the casinos "should" understand this, and should be far more certain that they are only barring true threats to their expectation of steady long-term income from every player, they instead err on the side of barring players, and undoubtedly make the most serious mistake of all on occasion, barring someone who is NOT a card counter at all.

I always wondered what the impact was of the negative PR that might come from barring a player who coincidentally was winning and playing in a way that appeared to be "professional" (in the case of blackjack, a card counter) ONLY BY CHANCE -- it could happen, of course! In fact, I sometimes attempted to act as shocked, when barred, as this clueless player might be if he somehow was incorrectly identified as a counter and asked not to play anymore. Incidentally, that ploy never worked :) But I always hoped that I'd sent some pit boss home that night wondering if he'd screwed up and barred a good customer.

The only thing I'd disagree with is that if you are a recreational player, it doesn't matter. Just because you play for fun does not mean that you don't want to win, and even moreso, certainly does not automatically mean that you will lose money. Certainly you can't consider yourself a professional if you do NOT have the knowledge, skills, and discipline to make money consistently long-term, but that does not ean that if you do NOT consider yourself a proessional, you therefore can't have the knowledge, skills, and discipline to win.

And it's my experience that it (being an occasional / recreational player) does not mean that you won't be barred, nor that you won't mind if you are. Certainly, if I'm making a living playing blackjack or video poker, it's much more serious if I'm barred, and if I have to go to less than optimal locales to play, and perhaps have nowhere to play / work where I can earn the money I've grown accustomed to.

But I assure you, if you like to go "on vacation" in Vegas, and enjoy the food, shopping, weather, and shows, and you are willing to "gamble" enough that the casinos will support some or all of those recreational activities via comps, you will most certainly be offended, and to some extent harmed financially, if you find your favorite casino(s) no longer comp you for anything and won't let you play there. Now an activity that you could reasonably expect (1) to break even at - or better -- and (2) to indirectly finance a good portion of your recreational activities, has become an activity that you can no longer engage in. Now you can't play, and don't get free stuff. That's bad for anyone who WAS playing and getting free stuff - obviously, I'd think.

Basically, it hurts the recreational player compared to the professional in the same way that a layoff hurts a part-time employee compared to a full-time employee -- the part-timer is still without income (and perhaps without benefits), but the reduction is not as great (in dollars - it's still a 100% reduction!), and it may or may not result in a significant change in lifestyle. Interestingly, with gambling, the part-timer is more likely to receive "benefits" while the professional may have to forego them in exchange for an opportunity to earn money.

Incidentally, the light went on in my head early in my blackjack playing days, as to how my conduct was that of a card-counter. While others would gladly give their ID and get a playes card and be rated for their play, I would decline to be "rated" and probably appeared disturbed when asked who I was and asked to fill out a form for a players card. When I realized that the "real" gamblers not only had a card, but pushed for comps, I realized what I had to do. I bought a bulky gold bracelet that I only wore in Vegas, dressed well (blazer), got a players card, and always asked to be rated, and always was trying to get lots of comps - and pushing for more. Now I was acting more like a real gambler :)

Once I got to that point, the barrings were far less frequent, but I finally decided to play some games where I was not likely to be barred at all, so I switched to video poker (some) and live poker (a lot) -- but I no longer am the well-comped (and high-earning) player that I once was.

--BG
=================


> 4b. Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws concerning
> advantage ga
>     Date: Fri Nov 2, 2012 12:48 am ((PDT))
>
>
>
>
> armchairpresident
> wrote: the casinos are wrong, period. A business should not
> ban a patron for
> being a patron. Hire business people with brains who focus
> on the business, not
> punishing customers.
>
>
>
> I don't
> blame you for your feelings. Many players feel the same
> way.
>
>
>
>
>
> However,
> casinos can and do restrict players, in Nevada anyway, for
> almost anything
> other than race, ethnicity, sex, religion, or something like
> that.
>
>
>
>
>
> Players are
> not required to like this. Obviously you don't and
> you're not alone. But if
> players are going to survive in the gambling business they
> should be aware of
> the "rules of the game." And one of those rules is that
> casinos can restrict
> you if you don't "behave" according to their
> preferences.
>
>
>
>
>
> Players who
> conform to what the casinos prefer find they are welcome
> more than if they do
> not conform. Back in the 60s I had a beard and would call
> this "selling out." Selling
> out was a bad thing. Now I call it an intelligent business
> decision.
> Intelligent business decisions are good things. Same event.
> Different perceptions as I matured/sold out.
>
>
>
>
>
> If you are
> a recreational player, largely this doesn't matter much.
> Most recreational
> players lose enough that casinos don't restrict them ---
> although sometimes players
> are punished for big jackpots whether they know what they
> are doing or not.
> Mostly it is the serious player who needs to be concerned
> with being restricted
> and the steps to take to avoid it or to get reinstated.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws

 

I guess I'm flattered :)

I mostly play live poker now, with enough $1 video poker to maintain diamond status with TR. Other than that, I am definitely not a "major league" player in any way (and "other than that" is probably a meaningless qualifier). When I was working I had enough bankroll to play $5 and once or twice $10 or $25 VP, but even then I was over my head above $5.

Whether my then-regular level of $5 is "major league" or "low stakes" is in the eyes of the beholder -- at the time, I was comfortable with $5 play; now that I'm retired, my bankroll does not support that level of play comfortably, and I only go to a $5 machine on the rare occasion when I want to play, but the available games under $5 are not so-called "full pay" (which I accept as 99.5% or more, so that probably makes it clear that I'm not a pro).

Also, I just play Jacks or Better -- used to play 10/7 DDB MANY years ago, but I don't take the game seriously enough to keep my skills up on more than one variety, ie JoB -- so that probably also places me clearly out of the "major league" category -- but my awareness of what I'm doing also leaves me out of the "without a clue" category too.

So I would never say that I am a player "without a clue" by any means.

So I am primarily a recreational player, but professionals should be well aware that many recreational players (certainly not most, but many nevertheless) take the game seriously, understand its intricacies as well as the pro's (although we may not bother to learn a wide variety of games, or penalty cards, or other more-advanced plays that don't add very much return on the time spent learning them if you aren't an every-day or every-week player), who are not superstitious, try to play correctly, often do play correctly, may or may not qualify for a lot of extra offers, may or may not attract any attention (good or bad), and may often be playing at break-even or slightly below with the intent of (1) having fun and (2) getting some reasonable level of comps or preferential treatment (the VIP line is almost as valuable to me as the comps) in recognition of the action given to the casino. While we enjoy the game, we neither expect nor rely on it for income
- but that doesn't mean that we want to accept a higher casino edge by routinely playing games with sub-par pay tables or by playing badly. I never play a "hunch" at video poker (and wouldn't know how one could reasonably have a "hunch").

And of course, like players with none of those more serious characteristics, we hope that variance will reward us enough that we end up on the plus side of our EV instead of on the slightly negative side that our game selection and playing level might properly forecast.

When I played blackjack, I was still recreational, but I'd have to call myself somewhere well beyond minor league, simply because of my betting level and level of expertise -- there I DID count cards, and not ony varied my bets with the count, but varied the marginal play decisions appropriately, took a lot of counter-measures (which now seem silly) to reduce the chance of detection, and so on. When I played blackjack, even though I only played 5-10 trips (3-5 days each) a year, and was by no means a pro, I expected to play with a 0.5 to 2% edge against the house, while fully understanding that my expected win of 1-2 betting units an hour was with a variance of +/- 20 units. However, I would again not consider myself "major league" because I played only 20-40 hours per trip, 5-10 trips a year, never had the least interest in playing team blackjack, and never expected it to significantly affect my income (in either direction), although it was nice to
earn a cash income during vacations without "working" -- although it was starting to seem more like "work" than "play" some of the time.

--BG
================

> 3. Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws
> concerning
>     Posted by: "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com"
> rob.singer1111@yahoo.com
> rob.singer1111
>     Date: Thu Nov 1, 2012 10:41 am ((PDT))
>
> Just wondering Barry: do you consider yourself as "major
> league"....or just one of those "low stakes" players without
> a clue? Either way, your post made a lot of sense.
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Question about slot machine returns

 

Cant really answer the Math involved, but I can tell you about a recent
experience I had. Found a machine at mohegan Sun that was at $46, and must
hit by $50. At 40C a pop, I went through $100 fairly quickly, and I believe
the Meter was at $47.50 when I left. I walked away from the machine fearing
investing another $100 to make $50 would be a bad gamble at that point stuck
$100 and counting.
Now, players are not dumb ( except maybe me ) ...but I'll play from now on
if I find a must-hit mini at $48, or a must-hit major at $480. I know its
rare to find anything that high...but...you can get burned by these near
jackpot machines.
best...Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 2:40 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Question about slot machine returns

>
> I have been playing some of the must hit by slot machines when the
> jackpots get to certain levels and I've been working through the math to
> figure out the +EV spots.
>
> My question and my uncertainty is around the base return of some games
> (the Ex-jackpot return), which is a key factor in figuring out the cutoff
> points.
>
> One question I have is whether the base return of the game varies based on
> the number of credits per spin. For example if a machine can be played at
> max lines anywhere from 40 cents to 2 dollars, does the base return
> usually vary or is it just multiplied by 5 as you go to max credits.
>
> This is important because I know what the returns of classes of machines
> are like penny slots at my local casinos, but it would be really helpful
> to know how to interpret this information. The difference between an 85%
> return machine and a 90% return machine can be big for figuring out cutoff
> points.
>
> I guess I am wondering if a standard slot machine like this is usually
> programmed to offer different odds depending on the number of credits bet,
> or whether the additional credits just act as a pure multiplier.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.

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[vpFREE] Question about slot machine returns

 


I have been playing some of the must hit by slot machines when the jackpots get to certain levels and I've been working through the math to figure out the +EV spots.

My question and my uncertainty is around the base return of some games (the Ex-jackpot return), which is a key factor in figuring out the cutoff points.

One question I have is whether the base return of the game varies based on the number of credits per spin. For example if a machine can be played at max lines anywhere from 40 cents to 2 dollars, does the base return usually vary or is it just multiplied by 5 as you go to max credits.

This is important because I know what the returns of classes of machines are like penny slots at my local casinos, but it would be really helpful to know how to interpret this information. The difference between an 85% return machine and a 90% return machine can be big for figuring out cutoff points.

I guess I am wondering if a standard slot machine like this is usually programmed to offer different odds depending on the number of credits bet, or whether the additional credits just act as a pure multiplier.

Any help would be appreciated.

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[vpFREE] Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 1 NOV 2012

 

Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 1 NOV 2012

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm</a>

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This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
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[vpFREE] Re: St. Louis Harrah's switchover

 

> Kathleen Stockdale <kathleenstockdale@...> wrote:

> Tomorrow is the opening of the Casino in Maryland Heights of the Hollywood
> Casino. I would like to hear about how they handled your Reward Credits, the
> good VP machines and any other information anyone can provide.

There are a few posts about this on the vpFREE St. Louis forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE_StLouis/

vpFREE2.com lists the good Harrah's St. Louis video poker reported to them: http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/harrahs-st-louis

vpFREE Administrator

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[vpFREE] LVA Question of the Day - 2 NOV 2012

 

LVA Question of the Day - 2 NOV 2012

Q: Can you explain how parlays and teasers work when there's
a tie? All the picks have to win to have a winning bet, but
if you bet a 2-teamer, 3-teamer, or any number of teams and
one of the results is a tie, what happens? And is the rule
the same everywhere, or do you have to be careful before
playing?

Read the answer here:

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/qod.cfm</a>

NOTE: vpFREE access to the Question of the Day link has
been approved by LVA and expires after the current day
for non-LVA members.

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

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RE: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws concerning advantage ga

armchairpresident
wrote: the casinos are wrong, period. A business should not ban a patron for
being a patron. Hire business people with brains who focus on the business, not
punishing customers.



I don't
blame you for your feelings. Many players feel the same way.





However,
casinos can and do restrict players, in Nevada anyway, for almost anything
other than race, ethnicity, sex, religion, or something like that.





Players are
not required to like this. Obviously you don't and you're not alone. But if
players are going to survive in the gambling business they should be aware of
the "rules of the game." And one of those rules is that casinos can restrict
you if you don't "behave" according to their preferences.





Players who
conform to what the casinos prefer find they are welcome more than if they do
not conform. Back in the 60s I had a beard and would call this "selling out." Selling
out was a bad thing. Now I call it an intelligent business decision.
Intelligent business decisions are good things. Same event. Different perceptions as I matured/sold out.





If you are
a recreational player, largely this doesn't matter much. Most recreational
players lose enough that casinos don't restrict them --- although sometimes players
are punished for big jackpots whether they know what they are doing or not.
Mostly it is the serious player who needs to be concerned with being restricted
and the steps to take to avoid it or to get reinstated.





Bob
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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