[vpFREE] Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 22 AUG 2014

 

Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 22 AUG 2014

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm

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Posted by: vpFREE3355 <vpfree3355@gmail.com>
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Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

I'm shooting blood from my eyes after reading this.

"Mother PLEASE make it stop"
CF
Age & treachery will overcome youth & skill.


-----Original Message-----
From: Nordo123@aol.com [vpFREE] <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 22, 2014 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

I am now ready to tell you the cost of playing Queens or better pays 2 instead   of Jacks or better pays 2 DDS. For this discussion order counts because even   though the final hand may be the same without order counting in one case you may   have doubled and the other case you may not have. For example JJ234 returns 2   bets and J234J returns only 1 so your loss in playing Queens instead of Jacks   DDS are 2 bets and 1 bet respectavely. Now instead of 2598960 final hands there   are 2598960 times 5! = 311875200 final hands with order counting. Instead of   84480 hands of exactly 1 pair of Jacks there are 84480 times 5! = 10137600 final   hands of exactly 1 pair of Jacks. There are (4C2 times 12C2 times 16 times 4!) =   152064 ways that your first 4 cards are exactly 1 pair of Jacks, (you are now   doubling your bet) and 40 cards you can catch (any card of the other 10 ranks   not in your 1st 4 cards) = 6082560 final hands of 1 pair of jacks where you have   a pair of jacks in your first 4 cards. Th   ere are (12C4 times 4 times 4!) = 47520 ways that your first 4 cards are a 4   flush that contains a Jack. There are ((4 to the power of 4) times 4! times 3) =   18432 ways that your first 4 cards are KQJ10 or QJ(10)9 or J(10)98. If you   subtract out the 288 ways that your first 4 cards are KQJ10 suited or QJ(10)9   suited or J(10)98 suited that leaves (47520+18432-288) = 65664 ways that your   first 4 cards are an open ended straight or a 4 flush that contains a Jack, (you   are now doubling your bet) and 3 other Jacks you can catch = 196992 final hands   of 1 pair of jacks starting with a 4 card opened straight or 4 flush that   contains a jack. Combining the 2 cases there are (6082560+196992) = 6279552 ways   of ending up with a pair of jacks where you have doubled your original bet for a   loss of (6279552 times 2) = 12559104 original bets over "Jacks" DDS. That leaves   (10137600-6279552) = 3858048 final hands of exactly 1 pair of jacks that were   not doubled. You lose an original bet over "   Jacks" DDS in those cases. Your total loss over "Jacks" DDS is therefore   (12559104+3858048) = 16417152 original bets. The loss by playing "Queens" DDS   over "Jacks" DDS is therefore 16417152/311875200 = 0.05264 or 5.264%.    Sent from my iPhone    ------------------------------------  Posted by: nordo123@aol.com  ------------------------------------    vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm      ------------------------------------    Yahoo Groups Links    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/    <*> Your email settings:      Individual Email | Traditional    <*> To change settings online go to:      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/join      (Yahoo! ID required)    <*> To change settings via email:      vpFREE-digest@yahoogroups.com       vpFREE-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:      https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

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RE: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

By the way in the casino wizards way is much easier because offers are based on total action (in video poker). The real question is when you got your 0.2 % edge from IGT did they figure the edge on hands played like blackjack or 0.2% of action given. Doesn't make much difference though.

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RE: [vpFREE] XVP --- Legal Questions Sought

 

Here is my question
 
I was given a $1000 "bonus"---like slot dollars from Harrahscasino. com in New Jersey. I played the amount through over several different gaming sessions (days) on a number of different slot, video poker, black jack, and roulette games and ended up apparently converting that $1000 dolars into slightly over $1200.  Now the online casino has sent me the paperwork to complete for a W2 form saying the winnings---in whole are taxable because it was won on "bonus" money even no one event netted a win bigger than $450.00---is this correct/ legal ?
 
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:31:44 -0700
Subject: [vpFREE] XVP --- Legal Questions Sought

 
On next Thursday's "Gambling with an Edge" radio show, attorneys Bob Nersesian and I Nelson Rose will both be guests. The format will be for Richard and I to pose a question and let those two go at it --- hopefully at least some of the time they'll have differing opinions. And then five or so minutes later, pose another question.

Richard and I are searching for good gambling-legal questions to pose to these attorneys. the best questions will be those where intelligent people can differ as to the right answer. The show will be taped Monday night for the airing at the usual time, so any questions suggested must be by Monday noon. You can post them here or at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com

Thanx

Bob


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RE: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

Bob, in your case the first 4 cards JJ23 are all that matter (before you double) so there are 40 catches for the 5th card that don't 2 pair or trip the hand. Both the "wizard" and me are correct. I'm doing it in terms of original bets and wizard is doing it in terms of action. In blackjack say you play 100 hands and win 1 bet, most books say you had a 1% edge. Say you doubled or split 10 of those hands. You put in action 110 bets. Your edge would be 0.9% of action. Same thing in either case you win 1 original bet. So a loss of 5.264% of original bets is the same as a loss of 4.2% of total action. I thought of mentioning that in the post but didn't want to confuse people, sorry.

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RE: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

I am now ready to tell you the cost of playing Queens or better pays 2 instead of Jacks or better pays 2 DDS. For this discussion order counts because even though the final hand may be the same without order counting in one case you may have doubled and the other case you may not have. For example JJ234 returns 2 bets and J234J returns only 1 so your loss in playing Queens instead of Jacks DDS are 2 bets and 1 bet respectavely. Now instead of 2598960 final hands there are 2598960 times 5! = 311875200 final hands with order counting. Instead of 84480 hands of exactly 1 pair of Jacks there are 84480 times 5! = 10137600 final hands of exactly 1 pair of Jacks. There are (4C2 times 12C2 times 16 times 4!) = 152064 ways that your first 4 cards are exactly 1 pair of Jacks, (you are now doubling your bet) and 40 cards you can catch (any card of the other 10 ranks not in your 1st 4 cards) = 6082560 final hands of 1 pair of jacks where you have a pair of jacks in your first 4 cards. There are (12C4 times 4 times 4!) = 47520 ways that your first 4 cards are a 4 flush that contains a Jack. There are ((4 to the power of 4) times 4! times 3) = 18432 ways that your first 4 cards are KQJ10 or QJ(10)9 or J(10)98. If you subtract out the 288 ways that your first 4 cards are KQJ10 suited or QJ(10)9 suited or J(10)98 suited that leaves (47520+18432-288) = 65664 ways that your first 4 cards are an open ended straight or a 4 flush that contains a Jack, (you are now doubling your bet) and 3 other Jacks you can catch = 196992 final hands of 1 pair of jacks starting with a 4 card opened straight or 4 flush that contains a jack. Combining the 2 cases there are (6082560+196992) = 6279552 ways of ending up with a pair of jacks where you have doubled your original bet for a loss of (6279552 times 2) = 12559104 original bets over "Jacks" DDS. That leaves (10137600-6279552) = 3858048 final hands of exactly 1 pair of jacks that were not doubled. You lose an original bet over "Jacks" DDS in those cases. Your total loss over "Jacks" DDS is therefore (12559104+3858048) = 16417152 original bets. The loss by playing "Queens" DDS over "Jacks" DDS is therefore 16417152/311875200 = 0.05264 or 5.264%.

 
 Interesting analysis. One error I think I found was when you started with a pair of jacks, say JJ234, you said there were 40 cards you could draw that wouldn't give you two pair. I think there are only 36 that wouldn't give you two pair or trips.

FWIW, I passed the problem by J.B., the programmer behind much of the Wizard of Odds website. His models say the game is worth 100.19% if it's Jacks or Better and 95.99% if it's Queens or Better. That comes out to a 4.20% difference. I do trust J.B.'s numbers. Nordo is clearly more competent with these calculations than I am --- but if I were forced to choose between trusting one or the other, I'm siding with J.B. with absolutely no offense intended.

I'm not going to try to reconcile the two different numbers. For my purposes, whether the game is 95% or 96% is 100% irrelevant. I'm not going to play it.

Bob

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Posted by: Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com>
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Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LVA - 19 AUG 2014

 

I am now ready to tell you the cost of playing Queens or better pays 2 instead of Jacks or better pays 2 DDS. For this discussion order counts because even though the final hand may be the same without order counting in one case you may have doubled and the other case you may not have. For example JJ234 returns 2 bets and J234J returns only 1 so your loss in playing Queens instead of Jacks DDS are 2 bets and 1 bet respectavely. Now instead of 2598960 final hands there are 2598960 times 5! = 311875200 final hands with order counting. Instead of 84480 hands of exactly 1 pair of Jacks there are 84480 times 5! = 10137600 final hands of exactly 1 pair of Jacks. There are (4C2 times 12C2 times 16 times 4!) = 152064 ways that your first 4 cards are exactly 1 pair of Jacks, (you are now doubling your bet) and 40 cards you can catch (any card of the other 10 ranks not in your 1st 4 cards) = 6082560 final hands of 1 pair of jacks where you have a pair of jacks in your first 4 cards. There are (12C4 times 4 times 4!) = 47520 ways that your first 4 cards are a 4 flush that contains a Jack. There are ((4 to the power of 4) times 4! times 3) = 18432 ways that your first 4 cards are KQJ10 or QJ(10)9 or J(10)98. If you subtract out the 288 ways that your first 4 cards are KQJ10 suited or QJ(10)9 suited or J(10)98 suited that leaves (47520+18432-288) = 65664 ways that your first 4 cards are an open ended straight or a 4 flush that contains a Jack, (you are now doubling your bet) and 3 other Jacks you can catch = 196992 final hands of 1 pair of jacks starting with a 4 card opened straight or 4 flush that contains a jack. Combining the 2 cases there are (6082560+196992) = 6279552 ways of ending up with a pair of jacks where you have doubled your original bet for a loss of (6279552 times 2) = 12559104 original bets over "Jacks" DDS. That leaves (10137600-6279552) = 3858048 final hands of exactly 1 pair of jacks that were not doubled. You lose an original bet over "Jacks" DDS in those cases. Your total loss over "Jacks" DDS is therefore (12559104+3858048) = 16417152 original bets. The loss by playing "Queens" DDS over "Jacks" DDS is therefore 16417152/311875200 = 0.05264 or 5.264%.

Sent from my iPhone

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RE: [vpFREE] XVP --- Legal Questions Sought

 

Don't forget the one about using devices to "obtain an advantage." I
was once threatened with being detained for writing with a pencil for
that purpose, but I don't think that would make a good question for
your guests. I'm concerned about looking up strategies on my iPhone
while I'm playing. More and more, I've leaned towards making small
mistakes rather than risk being sent to jail. What do they think?



  We've asked Nersesian about this more than once. He is adamant that using an iPhone even to look up a strategy is against Nevada's device law. Perhaps we could summarize Nersesian's views on this and ask Rose if he agrees.

Bob

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Re: [vpFREE] XVP --- Legal Questions Sought

 

>On next Thursday's "Gambling with an Edge" radio show, attorneys Bob Nersesian and I Nelson Rose will both be guests. The format will be for Richard and I to pose a question and let those two go at it --- hopefully at least some of the time they'll have differing opinions. And then five or so minutes later, pose another question.
>
>Richard and I are searching for good gambling-legal questions to pose to these attorneys. the best questions will be those where intelligent people can differ as to the right answer. The show will be taped Monday night for the airing at the usual time, so any questions suggested must be by Monday noon. You can post them here or at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com
>
>Thanx
>
>Bob

Don't forget the one about using devices to "obtain an advantage." I
was once threatened with being detained for writing with a pencil for
that purpose, but I don't think that would make a good question for
your guests. I'm concerned about looking up strategies on my iPhone
while I'm playing. More and more, I've leaned towards making small
mistakes rather than risk being sent to jail. What do they think?

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