John Grochowski Strictly Slots Article - FEB 2012
Lower freebie rates for video poker players reflect payback realties
http://www.casinocenter.com/?p=2443
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http://www.casinocenter.com/?p=2443</a>
James Thompson
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: cjsmas@roadrunner.com
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 21:13:28 -0500
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Cantor Sportsbook at HRH ...not honest and borderline deceitfull
That paper that is printed when the lines first come out and doesn't keep
track of the line moves.You have to look at the betting board on the wall
behind the counter to see the current odds.They did nothing deceitful.
I also wanted to state that the daily paper sheet with the lines didn't
indicate there was an additional vig/juice. fyi. That's what I based my
bet on. If I had known I would have to give the extra vig or the spread was
-2.0 I would not have made the bet.
Let me try to explain this ( I work in a sports book). This started about
10 years ago, instead of raising the line on the warriors they raised the
vig/juice. If you had bet the other side --- Suns + 1.5 you would have got
them even ( $100 to win $100).
This is more common in pro -football when the line is -3, instead of going
to 3 1/2 a very common number to fall on they raise the vig. I have seen it
go as high as -140. But remember if it is minus -140----it would be + 120 on
the other side.
The question you need to ask yourself is this:
Would it have been better to lay -2 on the Warriors ( instead of - 1.5 and
lay -110
Or in the examble above in pro-football lay - 3.5 instead of -3
Remember the 20 cent line is the same if it is -120 + even--- or -110. -110
>
>
>
>
> Just an fyi...
> I know this is a Video Poker forum but I just wanted to share this with
everyone.
>
> I decided to bet $100.00 on the NBA Golden State Warriors to lead the
Phoenix Suns by 1.5 at the end of the first half.
> I placed my bet and got my ticket. When I looked at the ticket, instead
of Bet 100.00 to win 89.00, it showed only a potential win of 83.72.
> When I questioned the worker, he said money was too heavy on the Warriors
and that I had to give -120 as well as the points.
> Needless to say I was shocked.
>
> This is the first time I've seen this where you have to give the points
and increased vig on a basketball bet. With baseball coming up to, sports
betters need to be aware of this.
>
> My limo driver said he had never heard of this also.
>
> James Thompson
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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That paper that is printed when the lines first come out and doesn't keep
track of the line moves.You have to look at the betting board on the wall
behind the counter to see the current odds.They did nothing deceitful.
I also wanted to state that the daily paper sheet with the lines didn't
indicate there was an additional vig/juice. fyi. That's what I based my
bet on. If I had known I would have to give the extra vig or the spread was
-2.0 I would not have made the bet.
Let me try to explain this ( I work in a sports book). This started about
10 years ago, instead of raising the line on the warriors they raised the
vig/juice. If you had bet the other side --- Suns + 1.5 you would have got
them even ( $100 to win $100).
This is more common in pro -football when the line is -3, instead of going
to 3 1/2 a very common number to fall on they raise the vig. I have seen it
go as high as -140. But remember if it is minus -140----it would be + 120 on
the other side.
The question you need to ask yourself is this:
Would it have been better to lay -2 on the Warriors ( instead of - 1.5 and
lay -110
Or in the examble above in pro-football lay - 3.5 instead of -3
Remember the 20 cent line is the same if it is -120 + even--- or -110. -110
>
>
>
>
> Just an fyi...
> I know this is a Video Poker forum but I just wanted to share this with
everyone.
>
> I decided to bet $100.00 on the NBA Golden State Warriors to lead the
Phoenix Suns by 1.5 at the end of the first half.
> I placed my bet and got my ticket. When I looked at the ticket, instead
of Bet 100.00 to win 89.00, it showed only a potential win of 83.72.
> When I questioned the worker, he said money was too heavy on the Warriors
and that I had to give -120 as well as the points.
> Needless to say I was shocked.
>
> This is the first time I've seen this where you have to give the points
and increased vig on a basketball bet. With baseball coming up to, sports
betters need to be aware of this.
>
> My limo driver said he had never heard of this also.
>
> James Thompson
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
james thompson
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: sheiky2@msn.com
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:41:40 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Cantor Sportsbook at HRH ...not honest and borderline deceitfull
Let me try to explain this ( I work in a sports book). This started about 10 years ago, instead of raising the line on the warriors they raised the vig/juice. If you had bet the other side --- Suns + 1.5 you would have got them even ( $100 to win $100).
This is more common in pro -football when the line is -3, instead of going to 3 1/2 a very common number to fall on they raise the vig. I have seen it go as high as -140. But remember if it is minus -140----it would be + 120 on the other side.
The question you need to ask yourself is this:
Would it have been better to lay -2 on the Warriors ( instead of - 1.5 and lay -110
Or in the examble above in pro-football lay - 3.5 instead of -3
Remember the 20 cent line is the same if it is -120 + even--- or -110. -110
>
>
>
>
> Just an fyi...
> I know this is a Video Poker forum but I just wanted to share this with everyone.
>
> I decided to bet $100.00 on the NBA Golden State Warriors to lead the Phoenix Suns by 1.5 at the end of the first half.
> I placed my bet and got my ticket. When I looked at the ticket, instead of Bet 100.00 to win 89.00, it showed only a potential win of 83.72.
> When I questioned the worker, he said money was too heavy on the Warriors and that I had to give -120 as well as the points.
> Needless to say I was shocked.
>
> This is the first time I've seen this where you have to give the points and increased vig on a basketball bet. With baseball coming up to, sports betters need to be aware of this.
>
> My limo driver said he had never heard of this also.
>
> James Thompson
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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And by the way, this totally unfair!
From: Videopoker
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 3:09 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
AGI is the same in both cases. You just have less of a deduction, therefore higher taxable income.
From: Videopoker
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 8:13 AM
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
If you have $100k of w-2's for gambling and $100k of income, that's $200k AGI when the Medicare premium amount is calculated for "high earners".
If you claim $100k in losses, your net income is $100k because you have the deduction for losses. Medicare does not recognize the losses! This really is not a fair representation of your true income, and it really punishes gamblers with w-2g's.
From: mailto:rob.singer1111%40yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:55 PM
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
I thank you for that clear info. One last question since you've been directly affected and I haven't been involved in SS income or Medicare yet: If you get $50,000 in W2G's this year and assuming you're a net winner of $10,000, about how much does that affect your Medicare payments?
I know I'm assuming much here, but I do look at players who receive W2G's as having won something after their losses are deducted. At least that's the way it has always been for me. But if a player gets a pile of W2G's and still loses by year's end, I'm guessing that does adversely affect those Medicare premiums, which in turn makes those jackpots not worth hitting. Am I on the right track?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Jan Spornhauer" <mailto:janspornhauer%40sbcglobal.net>
To: <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
Date: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:55 pm
Rob
What he is talking about is the Medicare portion of SS. Medicare premiums
are adjusted based upon ones AGI. Mine have been impacted over the past 3
years because of significant W2 G's.
J. T.
_____
From: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
mailto:rob.singer1111%40yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:33 PM
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
How do SS payments change when you are getting W2G's? They are not figured
into the formula for determining how much a person receives for their SS
benefit unless you file as a business, ie, professional gambler. Are you
also working?
I know AGI affects people who get W2G's, but I've never heard of that making
a $4000 win translate it into costing them anything net.
____________________
From: "mailto:lfcmja%40verizon.net <mailto:lfcmja%40verizon.net> "
I recently turned 65 and saw my SS benefits drop in spite of the recent cola
increase, due to a higher AGI caused by my casino W2G's.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AGI is the same in both cases. You just have less of a deduction, therefore higher taxable income.
From: Videopoker
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 8:13 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
If you have $100k of w-2's for gambling and $100k of income, that's $200k AGI when the Medicare premium amount is calculated for "high earners".
If you claim $100k in losses, your net income is $100k because you have the deduction for losses. Medicare does not recognize the losses! This really is not a fair representation of your true income, and it really punishes gamblers with w-2g's.
From: mailto:rob.singer1111%40yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:55 PM
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
I thank you for that clear info. One last question since you've been directly affected and I haven't been involved in SS income or Medicare yet: If you get $50,000 in W2G's this year and assuming you're a net winner of $10,000, about how much does that affect your Medicare payments?
I know I'm assuming much here, but I do look at players who receive W2G's as having won something after their losses are deducted. At least that's the way it has always been for me. But if a player gets a pile of W2G's and still loses by year's end, I'm guessing that does adversely affect those Medicare premiums, which in turn makes those jackpots not worth hitting. Am I on the right track?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Jan Spornhauer" <mailto:janspornhauer%40sbcglobal.net>
To: <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
Date: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:55 pm
Rob
What he is talking about is the Medicare portion of SS. Medicare premiums
are adjusted based upon ones AGI. Mine have been impacted over the past 3
years because of significant W2 G's.
J. T.
_____
From: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
mailto:rob.singer1111%40yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 3:33 PM
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: DIAD (long and probably too much info for most)
How do SS payments change when you are getting W2G's? They are not figured
into the formula for determining how much a person receives for their SS
benefit unless you file as a business, ie, professional gambler. Are you
also working?
I know AGI affects people who get W2G's, but I've never heard of that making
a $4000 win translate it into costing them anything net.
____________________
From: "mailto:lfcmja%40verizon.net <mailto:lfcmja%40verizon.net> "
I recently turned 65 and saw my SS benefits drop in spite of the recent cola
increase, due to a higher AGI caused by my casino W2G's.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Some companies will consolidate gift cards into one card, for no charge.
I've done it at Macy's and at Wal*Mart. I don't know if SWA will do it, but
it would solve the problem if they perform this service.
Since the SWA cards have a PIN, you might even be able to do this over the
phone, or online.
Brian
=================================
In a message dated 2/27/2012 12:01:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
7711-jimmason@usa.net writes:
That is good news-maybe with the recently required fare
disclosures they added a payment slot(my experience was from November
2011). Theoretically, it would then be possible to burn 8 gift cards with 2
one ways.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@... wrote:
>
> The policy may have been different earlier, but 3 gift cards & a credit
> card works. There were FOUR payment slots this weekend. The following is
> copied from my confirmation:
>
>
> Cost and Payment Summary
>
> AIR -
> Base Fare
> $ 463.26
> Excise Taxes
> $ 34.74
> Segment Fee
> $ 22.80
> Passenger Facility Charge
> $ 16.50
> September 11th Security Fee
> $ 10.00
> Total Air Cost
> $ 547.30
>
> Payment Information
> Payment Type: Discover XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $247.30
>
> Payment Type: Gift card Acct:8100000014096111
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $100.00
>
> Payment Type: Gift card Acct:8100000014096137
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $100.00
>
> Payment Type: Gift card Acct:8100000014095493
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $100.00
>
>
>
>
> Re the one-way being limited to 2 gift cards, I didn't try it but the
> suggestion to go one-way to maximize gift cards came from Southwest &
they
> didn't mention a 2-card limit. It would be nice if someone were to try
it &
> report back. I still have a bunch of cards but they're already committed.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2012 10:07:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> _Southwest gift cards _
>
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/119565;_ylc=X3oDMTJzM3Q2dnBqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzQ2NDEwMTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MD
> Y1NzMyBG1zZ0lkAzExOTU2NQRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzMwMjM2NDIw)
> Posted by: "jim_mason7" _7711-jimmason@... _
> (mailto:7711-jimmason@...?Subject= Re:%20Southwest%20gift%20cards)
_jim_mason7 _
> (http://profiles.yahoo.com/jim_mason7)
> Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:55 pm (PST)
>
>
>
>
> To clarify-
>
> There are only 3 payment slots with South West.
>
> If any gift card/fare credit does not over the total fare due on the
1st
> payment slot, then a second gift card/fare credit can be used on the
2nd
> payment slot. If there is still a balance due, the 3rd payment slot can
be a
> gift card/fare credit only if it covers the entire fare balance due.
> Otherwise, you will need to use a credit card for the 3rd payment
slot(and use you
> gift card/credit on another ticket)
> Buying one-way tickets allows you to use up more gift cards/fare
credits.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That is good news-maybe with the recently required fare
disclosures they added a payment slot(my experience was from November 2011). Theoretically, it would then be possible to burn 8 gift cards with 2 one ways.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@... wrote:
>
> The policy may have been different earlier, but 3 gift cards & a credit
> card works. There were FOUR payment slots this weekend. The following is
> copied from my confirmation:
>
>
> Cost and Payment Summary
>
> AIR -
> Base Fare
> $ 463.26
> Excise Taxes
> $ 34.74
> Segment Fee
> $ 22.80
> Passenger Facility Charge
> $ 16.50
> September 11th Security Fee
> $ 10.00
> Total Air Cost
> $ 547.30
>
> Payment Information
> Payment Type: Discover XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $247.30
>
> Payment Type: Gift card Acct:8100000014096111
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $100.00
>
> Payment Type: Gift card Acct:8100000014096137
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $100.00
>
> Payment Type: Gift card Acct:8100000014095493
> Date: Feb 24, 2012
> Payment Amount: $100.00
>
>
>
>
> Re the one-way being limited to 2 gift cards, I didn't try it but the
> suggestion to go one-way to maximize gift cards came from Southwest & they
> didn't mention a 2-card limit. It would be nice if someone were to try it &
> report back. I still have a bunch of cards but they're already committed.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2012 10:07:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> _Southwest gift cards _
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/119565;_ylc=X3oDMTJzM3Q2dnBqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzQ2NDEwMTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MD
> Y1NzMyBG1zZ0lkAzExOTU2NQRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzMwMjM2NDIw)
> Posted by: "jim_mason7" _7711-jimmason@... _
> (mailto:7711-jimmason@...?Subject= Re:%20Southwest%20gift%20cards) _jim_mason7 _
> (http://profiles.yahoo.com/jim_mason7)
> Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:55 pm (PST)
>
>
>
>
> To clarify-
>
> There are only 3 payment slots with South West.
>
> If any gift card/fare credit does not over the total fare due on the 1st
> payment slot, then a second gift card/fare credit can be used on the 2nd
> payment slot. If there is still a balance due, the 3rd payment slot can be a
> gift card/fare credit only if it covers the entire fare balance due.
> Otherwise, you will need to use a credit card for the 3rd payment slot(and use you
> gift card/credit on another ticket)
> Buying one-way tickets allows you to use up more gift cards/fare credits.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I've seen it before. You have the option of cancelling the bet.
Let me try to explain this ( I work in a sports book). This started about 10 years ago, instead of raising the line on the warriors they raised the vig/juice. If you had bet the other side --- Suns + 1.5 you would have got them even ( $100 to win $100).
This is more common in pro -football when the line is -3, instead of going to 3 1/2 a very common number to fall on they raise the vig. I have seen it go as high as -140. But remember if it is minus -140----it would be + 120 on the other side.
The question you need to ask yourself is this:
Would it have been better to lay -2 on the Warriors ( instead of - 1.5 and lay -110
Or in the examble above in pro-football lay - 3.5 instead of -3
Remember the 20 cent line is the same if it is -120 + even--- or -110. -110
>
>
>
>
> Just an fyi...
> I know this is a Video Poker forum but I just wanted to share this with everyone.
>
> I decided to bet $100.00 on the NBA Golden State Warriors to lead the Phoenix Suns by 1.5 at the end of the first half.
> I placed my bet and got my ticket. When I looked at the ticket, instead of Bet 100.00 to win 89.00, it showed only a potential win of 83.72.
> When I questioned the worker, he said money was too heavy on the Warriors and that I had to give -120 as well as the points.
> Needless to say I was shocked.
>
> This is the first time I've seen this where you have to give the points and increased vig on a basketball bet. With baseball coming up to, sports betters need to be aware of this.
>
> My limo driver said he had never heard of this also.
>
> James Thompson
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
This is not uncommon and you will see it all the time on the betting boards.
They had Golden State -1.5 -120,they were probbaly getting hit with Golden
State bets and instead of moving to line to -2 -110 and take a chance of
getting middled,they just raised the Vig on the bet,the line on the Golden
State was most likely +1.5 +100 (no vig).Nothing uncommon nor illegal
Just an fyi...
I know this is a Video Poker forum but I just wanted to share this with
everyone.
I decided to bet $100.00 on the NBA Golden State Warriors to lead the
Phoenix Suns by 1.5 at the end of the first half.
I placed my bet and got my ticket. When I looked at the ticket, instead of
Bet 100.00 to win 89.00, it showed only a potential win of 83.72.
When I questioned the worker, he said money was too heavy on the Warriors
and that I had to give -120 as well as the points.
Needless to say I was shocked.
This is the first time I've seen this where you have to give the points and
increased vig on a basketball bet. With baseball coming up to, sports
betters need to be aware of this.
My limo driver said he had never heard of this also.
James Thompson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just an fyi...
I know this is a Video Poker forum but I just wanted to share this with everyone.
I decided to bet $100.00 on the NBA Golden State Warriors to lead the Phoenix Suns by 1.5 at the end of the first half.
I placed my bet and got my ticket. When I looked at the ticket, instead of Bet 100.00 to win 89.00, it showed only a potential win of 83.72.
When I questioned the worker, he said money was too heavy on the Warriors and that I had to give -120 as well as the points.
Needless to say I was shocked.
This is the first time I've seen this where you have to give the points and increased vig on a basketball bet. With baseball coming up to, sports betters need to be aware of this.
My limo driver said he had never heard of this also.
James Thompson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nice to hear!
Like I posted to your picture...are they close to full pay? I've already got Gene Balcita to hook me up for easter weekend to be down there...I love it there!
Were/Are they still handing out "Lucky Dogs"?
Also, what about the little "Parade" they do when they hand out $100 bills?
I just wished Barona was closer than 6:15...
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <007@...> wrote:
>
> dealt4oak wrote:
>
> >Ive seen so called advantage players talk the talk and not play like >they preach.
>
>
For a full time gambler it takes monumental discipline to stay away from the negative expectation bets. I'm inured to it, but it wasn't always that way. Boredom can be a huge factor. You'll have times where a positive play is not readily available. So what do you do? Some so called advantage gamblers call it "taking a shot." That's playing a negative expectation game and trying to get lucky. After getting my feathers singed I learned not to "take a shot." I'd rather be bored than broke.
It helps if one has live poker in their arsenal. That way you always have something to fall back on when a good machine play is not presently available. It's always a part of my equation. Should I be playing poker or should I be pounding on that machine play? If they both carry about the same hourly rate then I'm gonna go with the lower variance of poker.
