[vpFREE] Upstairs at the D

 

i would advise anyone playing on the upstairs coin droppers to take note of the sticker on the machine stating the amount above which a hand pay occurs upon cashing out. I recommend feeding bills into the machine to pass that amount, thereby triggering a hand pay. Any coin cash out amount over $10 or so will likely cause a hopper fill and/or coin jam, which takes a while to rectify. The slot people usually do the hand pay pretty quickly, and don't seem to expect a tip. I think they are relieved to not have to deal with the coins jamming up.
There are a lot of NSU machines, and a $1 BP/DB progressive that sometimes gets pretty good. The music upstairs is different from downstairs. If you can hear it above the very loud keno machines, it is classic rock-Beatles, Motown, that sort of thing. The Sigma Derby is a hoot. It is worth seeing, at least once.
Also, the machines do not take tickets or "new" bills.
i had a good laugh the past few days reading about the experiences of others, especially Kickboyface. Wasn't that nickel loose deuce machine there back when it was Fitzgerald's?

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Posted by: tikithecat73lakeworth@yahoo.com
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Re: [vpFREE] Re: why CE is better than EV

 

You're forgetting a major part of the equation for many gamblers. That is why does somebody gamble. Don't fall into the Bob Dancer trap of assuming that everybody is doing this to make a living. Most of the people that read this forum gamble for entertainment, and just want to get their entertainment at the lowest possible price.

Regards
A.P.

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2015 9:15 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: why CE is better than EV

Are we gamblers or are we nits? I understand the math of CE and ROR and I am a gambler (I hope a good one). You people that have no gamble in them remind me of the lion in the wizard of oz (odds?). I bet Bob Dancer would put all of you in the gambler's hall of shame. I say go for max EV, "pull the string!!" The bad thing about safety is when you win, it is at a slower rate. If you happen to get unlucky do what any sensible gambler would do and grind away at $1 DB, 2's wild or low value casino promotions. You will probably build your bankroll up again where you can now move up in class to where you used to be. Poker players and race horses do this. If you get lucky from the beginning you can become annuitized (lucky you) and get out of gambling forever.

Sent from my iPhone

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Posted by: "Albert Pearson" <ehpee@rogers.com>
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Re: [vpFREE] Re: why CE is better than EV

 

Are we gamblers or are we nits? I understand the math of CE and ROR and I am a gambler (I hope a good one). You people that have no gamble in them remind me of the lion in the wizard of oz (odds?). I bet Bob Dancer would put all of you in the gambler's hall of shame. I say go for max EV, "pull the string!!" The bad thing about safety is when you win, it is at a slower rate. If you happen to get unlucky do what any sensible gambler would do and grind away at $1 DB, 2's wild or low value casino promotions. You will probably build your bankroll up again where you can now move up in class to where you used to be. Poker players and race horses do this. If you get lucky from the beginning you can become annuitized (lucky you) and get out of gambling forever.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: why CE is better than EV

 

Count me among that "lost" group. I figure what bankroll we need for play more in terms of "gobs of money."

I don't do math good but I read good, and what any math person says you need I just double – or triple - the amount. I have always had a healthy dose of fear of "going broke."

------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
UPDATED TAX BOOK
(Download 2015 eBook now)

From: mailto:vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2015 1:06 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: why CE is better than EV

>>>Probability and Statistics is a high school level course. Entrants to technical colleges are expected to have this already under their belts.>>>

Some of us were English majors and got lost. We don't know how we got here.

C

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Posted by: "Queen of Comps" <queenofcomps@cox.net>
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Re: [vpFREE] why CE is better than EV

 

fivespot wrote: "If there are VP examples where a CE-aware strategy makes a big
difference, I'd be interested to hear about them. I haven't found
any."

It's something to keep an eye out for. For video poker my thought would be to start with minROR strategy. For small edges, there's not much difference between minROR and maxEV strategy. I think your FPDW example would look better with minROR and with smaller bankrolls. Another thing to watch would be a promotion that's juicy enough for you to consider moving up in denomination, even though you'd be gambling with a smaller bankroll in relation to the new betsize. So, in summary, if you have a big bankroll and are playing tight edges, maxCE strategy will be close to maxEV strategy, for smaller bankrolls and larger edges the difference will grow. At half the Kelly bankroll, maxCE strategy and minROR strategy are the same. At infinite bankroll, maxCE strategy and maxEV strategy are the same.

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[vpFREE] Re: why CE is better than EV

 

>>>Probability and Statistics is a high school level course. Entrants to technical colleges are expected to have this already under their belts.>>>

Some of us were English majors and got lost. We don't know how we got here.

C

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: why CE is better than EV

 

NOTI wrote "Just keep your CE (Certainty Equivalence)
positive, and you do that by only gambling if your current
bankroll exceeds variance/2xEV bets."
bp wrote: "Nope. This is wrong."

You prefer this form: variance/(2xEV) bets?

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Re: [vpFREE] why CE is better than EV

 

If "The rest of the time I get my $100 back" is correct, you can play
forever on $100. Show me where I can play that game!

Tom C

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Cogno Scienti cognoscienti@hotmail.com
[vpFREE] <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Extra credit for people who believe in CE: Suppose I have a game where I
> bet
> $100. One in 40,000 times the payback is $100,000. The rest of the time I
> get my $100 back. How big a bankroll do I need to play this game?
> Cogno
>
>
>

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RE: [vpFREE] why CE is better than EV

 

Extra credit for people who believe in CE: Suppose I have a game where I bet
$100. One in 40,000 times the payback is $100,000. The rest of the time I
get my $100 back. How big a bankroll do I need to play this game?
Cogno

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Re: [vpFREE] why CE is better than EV

 


I like fivecard's perspective on the subject of CE (and penalty cards).

It's apparent that sometimes technical discussion along the lines that noti (and perhaps myself) introduce here proves to be more of a distraction than it is informative when it comes to members simply looking for the best means by which to strengthen their play.

Concepts such as CE and penalty cards have their place, and I don't think the value of either should be easily dismissed. Relative to most other aspects of play, their value is fractional. But in isolated situations, that value is significant.

A small number of rules for handling frequently occurring penalty card situations (in games such as DW, JB, or DB) when adopted into play, can capture the lion's share of the return shortfall between penalty-free strategy and optimal strategy. You needn't sweat every single conceivable penalty situation for meaningful gain.

And the concept of CE is very illustrative when considering the full implications of breaking 3-2's from 5K in FPDW, or 3-A's from a FH in FPDB. A gambler can't consider themselves fully informed if they merely follow rote strategy in such cases without a decent grasp of the bankroll considerations involved in breaking a sure thing in looking for a stronger draw that's only fractionally better.

That said, I look at the utility of CE and penalty card considerations as being roughly analogous to that of body shaving in competitive swimming. In either case, unless your game is finely honed to near-perfection, you're probably misspending your time by focusing on them.

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