[vpFREE] Re: Cannery Hates Video Poker Players

 

It's a clash of strategies. MaxEV strategy maximizes the average return of each hand on a hand by hand basis, but Min_Cost_Royal strategy minimizes the average cost of hitting a royal so it extracts the greatest value from each royal progressive jackpot. Steve Jacobs tried to explain this at one time:

http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_S.htm

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> Well you hit the nail on the head. It is so hard to grasp it is not in fact grasped by casino personnel.
>
> ~FK
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@> wrote:It's an interesting situation, because breaking the high pair to draw to a RF3 is better for the player AND the casino at the same time. Kinda difficult concept to grasp.
>

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[vpFREE] Re: VP in Washington state or Oregon

 

AFAIK, both Washington and Oregon are Video Lottery Terminals.

http://www.oregonlottery.org/GameInfo/Video/MythsFacts.aspx

http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/tls_faq.asp

Linda Boyd's "Video Poker Edge" may be dated now, but is truly enlightening regarding which states have real video poker vs. VLTs. VPfree links has a number of good links to state gaming commissions.

I believe you can test this by throwing away dealt winning hands, and if you get back at least what you threw away (or better) on the draw it's probably a VLT.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mrrmi" <tenplay@> wrote:
> >
> > The only VP games in the Northwest are in Indian casinos. Jacks of Better machines are 8/5 with a bonus if you match the last card on the right. I haven't seen a 9/6 machine yet. Can anyone recommend a casino for VP in Washington or Oregon? thanks.
> >
>
>
> I am not so sure the ones in the state of Washington are legit. Someone else can correct me, but I thought they were Class-2 lottery-type junk.
>
> Although I know the ones in Oregon are good!
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Cannery Hates Video Poker Players

 

Well you hit the nail on the head. It is so hard to grasp it is not in fact grasped by casino personnel.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:It's an interesting situation, because breaking the high pair to draw to a RF3 is better for the player AND the casino at the same time. Kinda difficult concept to grasp.

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[vpFREE] Re: harrahs st. louis offer

 

Well this is the line Harrahs like to use....but Ameristar comps drinks all day/evening long in their Star Club.

And they're in Missouri too. ;-)

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "David" <sarahmukasa10@...> wrote:
>
>Their Diamond lounge is quite unique. The charge for drinks is state law.
>

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[vpFREE] Re: Idiot's guide to casino management

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>

>
>
> One would think this might be taught in a university course. I'm serious.
>

Actually, I just read on LVA that Bill Zender's Casino-ology-2 is out. I don't know if he covers things we're talking about, but I think I'm going to order it right now. I've heard Zender before, and he's a very sharp cookie! I'm a slow reader, if anyone gets this before I do, please post a book report.

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[vpFREE] Re: Cannery Hates Video Poker Players

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
>
> There's something you are all forgetting. As long as all the players on the bank aren't a single team playing a conservative strategy, fighting for the high progressive and playing for the high meters considerably increases the casino's rake. It's odd but what's good for the player is also good for the casino.
>
> You could put in a 9/6 JoB game with .5% MR and still make money as long as the competition was adjusting their strategy "correctly".
>
> This has to do with the dynamics of immediate expectancy vs long term profit.
>

I've always thought something like that too. So let me see if I am on the same page.

First of all, the jackpot is "banked", so that is not the casino's money. And as the jackpot goes up, it is correct for the players to adjust their strategy, (i.e., break high pairs for RF3 draws, etc.) So the player makes money because the jackpot is high enough, and he adjusts his strategy.

On the other side of the coin, and at the same time, the casino makes money because the BASE game is still quite negative by itself. So even at the point where the jackpot makes the game break-even for the player, the casino continues to profit on subsequent action. And ALSO, if the player adjusts his strategy correctly, then the casino makes even more money off the base game and subsequent action. It's an interesting situation, because breaking the high pair to draw to a RF3 is better for the player AND the casino at the same time. Kinda difficult concept to grasp.

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[vpFREE] Re: Cannery Hates Video Poker Players

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
>
> The mistake they're making is killing the progressive meter when they aren't happy with the overall results. Instead they need to leave the meter alone (1% or more is a good progression) and take some out of the paytables, for example knocking 8-5 Bonus Poker down to 7-5 or 9-6 Double Double Bonus down to 8-6. That increases the rake but the high meter progression will still bring in the customers. Killing the meter progression pretty much kills the game, nobody is fooled by a supposedly progressive slot where the jackpot hardly moves at all.
>
> Bottom line, if a casino offers 8-5 Bonus or 9-6 Double Double Bonus without progressive, they should also offer 7-5 Bonus or 8-6 Double Double Bonus with 1% progressive or 6-5 Bonus or 7-6 Double Double Bonus with 2% progressive. All of these are about the same hold for the casino, but the progressives will bring in more business.
>

On my recent Vegas trip I did a whole bunch of scouting. Here are what I've seen and think should be very viable for all parties if they put a decent meter rise on it.

7-5 Bonus Poker
9-5 or 8-6 Jacks-or-Better
9-6-5 Double Bonus
9-5 Double Double
12-10 Deuces Wild and/or PNSU
8-6 Bonus Poker Deluxe (even 8-5)
13-4 Bonus Deuces Wild

And here are some ball-busters, they need to jetison these on the next space shuttle.

6-5 Bonus Poker YECH!!!
9-6-4 Double Bonus DOUBLE YECH!!!
8-5 Double Double
7-5 Bonus Poker Deluxe
7-5 Double Double should be a CRIME!
7-5 Jacks-or-Better
10-4-3 Bonus Deuces Wild
16-13-4 "Colorado" Deuces, there is a lot of this everywhere, SUX!

In this second group I saw a lot of relatively high meters and jackpots, but the games suck so bad it is just not viable. Especially that 9-6-4 Double Bonus. There is such a big difference between 9-6-4 and 9-6-5. First of all, big strategy differences. But the 9-6-5 works, and the 9-6-4 just sucks.

Anyway, even with decent pay tables, almost everywhere I went I saw the marquees over the progressive banks that said "$1015", "$1042", "$1102". Big deal! Why even advertise? Why even have a sign or a marquee if the jackpot is going to stay so low?

C'mon slots directors, get with it! Either that or find another job. Next time get a lemonade stand.

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[vpFREE] Re: Online Poker Apocalypse

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@...> wrote:
>
> Yea, I just read about it on Wizard of Vegas. This is going to change how online poker is made legal or if it will be ever.
>

This is huge news. I've been on the phone for an hour with different friends. I TOLD them not to keep so much money on there! I got a good scare when Neteller locked up a few years ago, of course we all got paid. We were lucky.

Anyway, what's going to happen to all these famous players like Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer, and all them guys who are involved in ownership? I don't think Phil Helmuth is going to like wearing an orange jumpsuit.

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[vpFREE] Re: Online Poker Apocalypse

 

Yea, I just read about it on Wizard of Vegas. This is going to change how online poker is made legal or if it will be ever.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>
> Omg, I just woke up and started reading the news. Black Friday.
>
> I don't have a penny on Poker Stars. A guy took my last one a week ago with a 2-outter. Oh well, I guess I got lucky.
>
> Looks like some heads are going to roll.
>
> This is BetOnSports times 100!
>

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[vpFREE] Re: VP in Washington state or Oregon

 



--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mrrmi" <tenplay@...> wrote:
>
> The only VP games in the Northwest are in Indian casinos. Jacks of Better machines are 8/5 with a bonus if you match the last card on the right. I haven't seen a 9/6 machine yet. Can anyone recommend a casino for VP in Washington or Oregon? thanks.
>

Spirit Mountain Casino in Oregon has 9/6 JOB progressives. Also, if the progressive gets high enough it's worth playing the 9/5 progressives there also. BTW...the two I mentioned aren't linked.

Kurt

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[vpFREE] Re: Online Poker Apocalypse

 

Lucky you! Some of us aren't so lucky and our accounts are frozen. :(

Kurt

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
>
> Omg, I just woke up and started reading the news. Black Friday.
>
> I don't have a penny on Poker Stars. A guy took my last one a week ago with a 2-outter. Oh well, I guess I got lucky.
>
> Looks like some heads are going to roll.
>
> This is BetOnSports times 100!
>

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[vpFREE] VP in Washington state or Oregon

 

The only VP games in the Northwest are in Indian casinos. Jacks of Better machines are 8/5 with a bonus if you match the last card on the right. I haven't seen a 9/6 machine yet. Can anyone recommend a casino for VP in Washington or Oregon? thanks.

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