is undoubtedly better for the casino to place games like this that for the
casino pay out a constant rate (not sure exact numbers regarding how much
goes toward progressive etc). But a game that pays out like FP JoB with
99.5% with no progressive makes the casino .5% minus comps/freebies etc,
however in a case like this when you put a progressive in on a machine that
would usually pay 98.5% put you put .5% of the play into the progressive it
creates a profit of 1% for the casino minus freebies/comps, yet it does
create the opportunity for players who have the option of only playing when
return with progressive is high a chance to play at >100% theoretically. I
guess my point is the fact that you get to play at a rate of 101% or
something when the progressive is high doesn't mean the casino is taking a
loss on you playing their machines as the money has been put into the
progressive at a constant rate. I guess in theory it creates the perfect
environment for progressive hunters out there, but hurts the casual players
especially those with limited options when progressives are high.
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 5:52 PM, vp_wiz <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> As much as you rail against this progressive, it seems as if somehow you
> deem their presence a personal insult.
>
> You're not wrong about the risk in playing the bank when only modestly
> positive. That should be a no-brainer conclusion for anyone with moderate
> intelligence. So do what your gut says is right and only play when the
> meters represent an attractive opportunity, factoring the risk.
>
> Or, if you really just can't get your head around the math, leave the play
> for others and don't sweat it any more than any other game you find
> unattractive.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am NOT thinking EV. I am NOT talking long term, months, years.
> >
> > I am thinking if you want to lose $20, or $100, as most are doing at
> these progressives. May as well spend it at a game where it will be life
> changing, rather than a few thousand dollars.
> > Your money will last about the same amount of time, IF you don't hit the
> jackpot. (A variance of up to 300 vs. Jacks or Better at 19.)
> >
> > I must admit I am guilty of Royal chasing. But how long are you gonna
> play before you hit something? How many thousands are you willing to dump
> into the machine to hit it?
> >
> > With a 100% around $2750 for this machine, that means (without cashback
> and club benefits) you are willing to lose a over $2700 to hit that quarter
> Royal to make $50.
> >
> > That is if everything goes as planned. And you get that Royal within the
> 30 to 50 thousand hands as statistics shows. If you are unlucky and it goes
> beyond that, as this progressive has already done, then you lose even when
> you hit it.
> >
> > The progressive goes up about 1/2 of one cent every time someone plays.
> So it has risen over $1500. Or if my shaky math is correct been played,
> 300,000 times. Of course not everyone is playing that game of course. Some
> are playing more familiar ones, but even if it is being played only 1/8 the
> time, (8 games on the machine) it is still "overdue" for that elusive Royal.
> >
> > Most of us are not playing for days on end to hit that Royal, but taking
> pot shots at it. Someone will sit down with $5 and hit it.
> > Like the lottery, someone has to win.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This kind of thinking/mathematics makes zero sense to me.
> > > Â
> > > If you take out the jackpots/royals/4 dueces from ANY
> > > game the paytable worsens.
> > > Â
> > > The casino WILL be paying them off and they ARE
> > > part of your EV for sure.
> > > Â
> > > Saying that playing an over 100% game with less than 5%
> > > of your Ev being the big jackpots is like Megabucks, an
> > > under 50% game with more than 5% of your Ev being
> > > on the jackpots doesn't make sense.
> > > Â
> > > Am I missing something, or does Miss Realtor just
> > > not like Frank and Bob?
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 5/30/11, the7thwarrior <Judy@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: the7thwarrior <Judy@>
> > > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: The New Progressives At The M
> > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 10:13 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > Â
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As I said at the beginning, these games are for suckers.
> > > Royal chasing suckers!
> > >
> > > No matter what strategy you use, the paytables are set so low, if play
> for any length of time, and you don't hit the Royal, you lose. PERIOD!
> > >
> > > Great Money maker for M. Great publicity creator for M. All bad for the
> average player.
> > >
> > > The progressives are doing their job. Getting people to talk about and
> revisit the place. Most will not just walk in and walk out, but drop a few
> bucks along the way in OTHER machines. THe billboard is an outright lie.
> Even at 16,000 coins you don't reach 102%.But the UP TO is in front of that
> number. Maybe they are "set to hit" at that mark. Will be interesting to
> see. Why don't they just say, up to 200% payback? Royal up to one million
> coins? It could get there. Theorectically that is if no one hits for a very
> long time and people keep playing it. Not likely, but it could happen.
> > >
> > > May as well play megabucks. At least then when you hit it, you win
> something worthwhile.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure lots of opinions and comments have been made about these
> interestingly different machines. I've sat and played at the 25c SDBP ($1650
> RF) version for 45 minutes as a test (quitting with a meaningless profit
> when four J's were hit), I've gone over all the numbers, and I have my own
> view of what these new machines mean to the casino and the player.
> > > >
> > > > As has been said, anyone who plays the lousy paytables when the
> royals are small is at a serious disadvantage, and some WILL play them at
> low royal levels. But since every credit bet on SDBP (or whatever game)
> contributes the exact same .5% to all 8 royals, the theory is the "experts"
> will only play the >100% games when they go that high, and in doing so, in
> conjunction with the unskilled players going at the lesser valued royals,
> they'll raise the royals on the other 7 or so games to "playable levels",
> thereby always having something positive to go after.
> > > >
> > > > BTW the signs around the casino aren't true. "Up to 102.5%", if the
> machines are fair, is wrong. If the royals aren't hit by the time the games
> reach a theoretical 102.5%, obviously it goes higher. Unless I'm missing
> something. Am I?
> > > >
> > > > It is very clear these machines will be just another money-maker for
> the casino and are a bad deal for the player. The optimal royal flush
> strategies for progressives of this type are a constantly moving target, and
> no expert, including yours truly, is capable of learning and then applying
> absolute expert strategy on so many different games on an as-required basis.
> As a result, even the best of players will continue to play at a sub 100%
> level no matter how high the royals go.
> > > >
> > > > At the end of the day these machines simply become nothing more than
> a pot shot for players seeking the thrill of hitting large 25c/50c/$1
> royals. I was surprised that when I was playing them last Saturday night
> around 9pm, there was only one other person playing. You can tell the meters
> run much faster than anything we've seen in years. But when people stopped
> by to look the games over they didn't really care what the royals were. All
> they commented on were the poor pay tables.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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