Poker Poker Poker!: Re: [vpFREE] South Point Warning

I stopped going to the South Point after they told me they only comp losers.
The South Point has an abundance of games that are over 99%, but they have nothing over %99.81.
If one were to look at the VPfree database they will find many casinos that have better machines than that.
I therefore disagree with the statement that the South Point has the loosest Video Poker in Las Vegas.
The only way they could be considered loosest is if you were looking at the average payback of all their video poker, in which case they probably do have the highest payback of any casino, but average payback wasn't mentioned.

I don't have much knowledge of what the locals get from all of the casinos in terms of benefits, but for visiting VP players there are many other casinos that are better than the South Point. I would encourage those that really care to spend time trying out other casinos to find out what is out there.

Regards
A.P.

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From: "Bob Dancer bobdancervp@hotmail.com [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
To: "vpFREE@yahoogroups.com" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] South Point Warning

The South Point has been good to me. It sponsors my classes and radio show and allows me to play. I consider Michael Gaughan a personal friend. He's only a few years older than me, but treats me almost like a son.

It bothers me that the South Point sometimes excludes people who only play on double point days or who have been winners over time. I've expressed that to Mr. Gaughan more than once --- and sometimes you need to learn when to back off. He's made his mind up and that's the way it's going to be. If I keep bringing it up, it won't change his mind and will only hurt my relationship with him.

One thing not mentioned in this thread is the South Point is in the discussion for having the loosest games anywhere. All players want it looser, of course, but the bottom line is overall the casino operates on a very small margin. Managing that can't be a piece of cake. Removing "successful" players is one way, perhaps. Tightening machines is another. Reducing slot club benefits would be another. Giving the same promotions as other casinos do would be still another.

But somehow, hard choices need to be made. The casino intends to make a profit, like any other business. You may disagree with the choice that's been made, but if they allowed everybody to play and tightened machines and cut promotions, I suggest you wouldn't like that either. Overall, they are doing something right there. The place is busy and profitable --- and they still have the loosest video poker games anywhere.

To the poster who said a .30% slot club means a 3 cent edge on playing one hand of $2 NSU (assuming perfect play --- which is a big assumption), your math was off by a factor of 10 (you actually make 3 cents every 10 hands) but there's a lot more to it. Their promotions regularly give away $500,000 - $600,000 a month --- in addition to 10-15 double point days a year. Show me another single casino that does that! And on a $600,000 promotion, if they find they've only given out $570,000 by the end of the month, they find a way to give away the extra $30,000. If it ends up that the promotions actually cost the casino $700,000 instead of $600,000, they live with it. Show me another casino that does that!

Monthly mailers add to the mix, but in general they're pretty small for competent video poker players. To get the biggest mailers you need to lose a lot or play slots. Still, it's the combination that counts --- game + slot club + mailers + promotions. And the combination is higher at the South Point for many players than it is at other casinos.

It's not a new thing that players who only play on double point days are excluded there --- and at several other casinos as well. It's been suggested on vpFREE and other places. I've certainly said as much in my classes. Savvy players understand that and play on single point days some of the time. If you can look at the "big picture," you'll see that playing a breakeven game at times can be a good investment if it keeps your welcome to the candy store. Changing metaphors, you have to water the tree sometimes and not just pick off the low-hanging fruit.

I strongly believe Stations and Coast, on a per casino basis, have no-mailed far more players than the South Point --- along with lesser games and promotions to start with. Yes there's a difference between "no mailing" and "no carding." Again, each casino does it it's own way.

Someone asked if Mr. Gaughan is still running things there. He has a General Manager (Ryan Growney) and other strong executives --- many of whom have been with him for 20 years --- but he is still in charge. He does speak with a stutter sometimes, but that's just the way he speaks. He's still mentally sharp. He is not running any other casinos. He has two sons in the gaming business --- and it wouldn't surprise me if they talk shop every now and then --- but he's not calling the shots anywhere else.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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