RE: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws concerning advantage gamblers

Rob Singer wrote: She
asked for trouble and she found it. There is no logical, reasonable, or
comprehensible way to associate anything she did in this or any other trespass
incident, with being a successful AP.

Luke Fuller wrote: If
Laurie played in a casino, in which she was trespassed (whether on a casino
offer or not), she was wrong. Period. It makes no difference whether she was
'caught' or not.





Did I mention that there were posters here who didn't have a
clue about the winning process?



These posters are making definitive judgments about a world
they do not understand. The world of not-so-successful low stakes video poker
players is very different from the world of successful high stakes blackjack
players.



Someone who regularly makes $250K a year gambling has a very
different approach to risk and reward than do people who play for much lower
stakes. Laurie and her husband understand this. Clearly many posters on this
site don't.



I'm not demeaning players who play for low stakes. There can
be a lot of very good reasons why they do that. But the lessons you learn
playing for low stakes are very different than figuring out a way to succeed at
higher stakes.



In today's world, everybody maintains the right to criticize
major leaguers in all professions. Most of the people doing the criticizing
have never walked in a major leaguer's shoes. They think they know what it's
like to live in that world. But they really don't.



Bob





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RE: [vpFREE] Mailers?

 


The mailer I got is for the Hard Rock Hotel only.
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RE: [vpFREE] Mailers?

I got a mailer awhile ago with a listing for room prices for the month. I no longer get free play since I'm an out of towner.

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: krauseinvegas@cox.net
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:10:57 -0700
Subject: [vpFREE] Mailers?


























Anyone get a Hard Rock or Rampart mailer for November yet?



Thanks.



Scot



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Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws concerning advantage gamblers

 

She asked for trouble and she found it. There is no logical, reasonable, or comprehensible way to associate anything she did in this or any other trespass incident, with being a successful AP.

----- Reply message -----

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com> wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
> Laurie likely �got away� with this type of thing 20 times previously where
> she collected on an offer after previously being barred. (If you think
> she�s been barred from casinos 200 times, you�re almost certainly on the
> low side.) This time she didn�t collect on the offer. Nobody here found
> anything wrong with her doing it the previous 20 times because she was
> successful then and they never heard about it. They are only criticizing
> her now because this is the time she got busted and it made the papers.
>
> <SNIP>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws concerning advantage gamblers

 

A professional gambler should assume that everything he or she does to win money is regarded as undesirable by the casino. I see nothing particularly special, especially morally, about going into one in which he or she has been 86ed. If that's wrong, maybe playing FPDW is, too.

----- Luke Fuller <kungalooosh@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob said, "Nobody here found anything wrong with her doing it the previous
> 20 times...."
>
> That is completely false.
>
> If Laurie played in a casino, in which she was trespassed (whether on a
> casino offer or not), she was wrong. Period. It makes no difference
> whether she was 'caught' or not.
>
> Laurie and anyone else who enters an establishment after being barred are
> wrong for doing so and should pay the price for their actions.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > Laurie likely �got away� with this type of thing 20 times previously where
> > she collected on an offer after previously being barred. (If you think
> > she�s been barred from casinos 200 times, you�re almost certainly on the
> > low side.) This time she didn�t collect on the offer. Nobody here found
> > anything wrong with her doing it the previous 20 times because she was
> > successful then and they never heard about it. They are only criticizing
> > her now because this is the time she got busted and it made the papers.
> >
> > <SNIP>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
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[vpFREE] Mailers?

 

Anyone get a Hard Rock or Rampart mailer for November yet?

Thanks.

Scot

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws concerning advantage gamblers

Bob said, "Nobody here found anything wrong with her doing it the previous
20 times...."

That is completely false.

If Laurie played in a casino, in which she was trespassed (whether on a
casino offer or not), she was wrong. Period. It makes no difference
whether she was 'caught' or not.

Laurie and anyone else who enters an establishment after being barred are
wrong for doing so and should pay the price for their actions.


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com> wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
> Laurie likely "got away" with this type of thing 20 times previously where
> she collected on an offer after previously being barred. (If you think
> she's been barred from casinos 200 times, you're almost certainly on the
> low side.) This time she didn't collect on the offer. Nobody here found
> anything wrong with her doing it the previous 20 times because she was
> successful then and they never heard about it. They are only criticizing
> her now because this is the time she got busted and it made the papers.
>
> <SNIP>


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RE: [vpFREE] Re: LVRJ: Ruling raises questions about laws concerning advantage gamblers

redtoppicker wrote: . . . She
had to know going there was wrong...However, the casino should not have invited
her either IMHO



I'm friendly with both Laurie and her husband John.
Other than what she and Bob Nersesian said on my radio show in separate
interviews and what I read in the paper, I have no inside information on this
particular situation.



That said, there are a lot of misconceptions by posters
in this thread. I'm using a particular quote from redtoppicker to begin my
argument but I'm really responding to several posts.



1. Casinos
are not monolithic entities where one person is making all the decision. There
are dozens or hundreds of decision makers at Caesars and other large casinos. There
is no person or database that knows everything there is to know about any
particular player --- let alone all of them. This isn't because the decision
makers are lazy or incompetent (although sometimes this happens as well) it's
because they have tens of thousands of customers who each make multiple trips
over an extended period of time. Sometimes (as is the case here) multiple
players use multiple names at different times and the casino may or may not
have properly linked all of the names to the same person. There is no "hole
card camera" like on TV poker games. In the real world you often don't know for
sure what the other side knows. This creates certain inefficiencies which
players can exploit.



2. Every
time an advantage player goes in to collect on an offer, there's a chance he
will not be allowed to play. It's sort of a cost benefit analysis that the
player does. Laurie likely "got away" with this type of thing 20 times
previously where she collected on an offer after previously being barred. (If you think she's been barred from casinos 200 times, you're almost
certainly on the low side.) This time she didn't collect on the offer. Nobody
here found anything wrong with her doing it the previous 20 times because she
was successful then and they never heard about it. They are only criticizing
her now because this is the time she got busted and it made the papers.



3. Sometimes
if you do get busted, the casino does it illegally and there is a big six-figure
settlement afterwards. This can make being willing to get busted a type of advantage
strategy. From what's in the paper, it doesn't seem like a big settlement is in
the cards in this particular case, but we don't have enough information to know for sure. And perhaps Nersesian still has a rabbit he can put out of a hat. And when she went into the casino on that particular day,
Laurie couldn't know that she would be busted or that when she would be busted
the casino would do so properly.



4. In
every advantage play, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you've
calculated correctly, your net wins are bigger than your net losses. People who
come by and gloat at your losses and tell you what you should have done
differently generally don't have a clue about the winning process. They don't know how many millions of dollars you have collected by doing exactly the same thing that didn't work this time. These
gloaters are merely using after-the-fact information to decide what should have
been done before-the-fact. That's easy do and completely worthless. Making the right decision BEFORE you know what the results are separates the successful ones from the not-so-successful ones.



Bob





















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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Coast Group

 

Jean,

You're 100% right. Impossible doesn't even begin to describe the effort when a casino can arbitrarily change the numerator, the denominator or even the length of the dividing line.

Witness the Mohegan Sun in CT: first a70% slice off the theo,
with subsequent cutbacks in club status, gifts, free points, and
FSP. THEN they increased the coin-in for pts requirement, with the final nail being the taking away of all points on FPVP. Even when you do get a FSP or bounceback mailer, depending on what machines they can be used on, they could have an EV of 99%+ or 80%. 

I realize others play a lot more often than I do, but at this point, my only option is to look at the offers for a month, see what 2-3-4 day period gives me the most advantageous set of giveaways, FSP, bonus offers, etc. and make my plans accordingly. Fortunately, this often comes mid-week, when retired old codgers like me can take advantage of them and avoid the weekend crowds.

 
Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein

>________________________________
>It's a lot of work to figure out mailers. I'd say the following would needed to be tracked for 6 months to get an idea of how the mailers work: date, coin in, length of play, denomination, game type, distance to casino, win/loss record, amount of freeplay redeemed, amount of play on days freeplay was redeemed, card status.>>
>
>
>It is an impossible task for a casino that uses win/loss factors – something you can't control even if you know all the other factors, which you usually don't.
>
>
>

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Coast Group

 

<<It's a lot of work to figure out mailers. I'd say the following would needed to be tracked for 6 months to get an idea of how the mailers work: date, coin in, length of play, denomination, game type, distance to casino, win/loss record, amount of freeplay redeemed, amount of play on days freeplay was redeemed, card status.>>

It is an impossible task for a casino that uses win/loss factors – something you can't control even if you know all the other factors, which you usually don't.

------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

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[vpFREE] Re: Coast Group

 

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tikithecat73lakeworth" <fjc73@...> wrote:
>
> My husband and I play at Orleans, Gold Coast, and Sam's Town. We have similar coin in, but he has been winning for the past few months, while I've been losing.
> He received ONE joint mailer for the four Coasts- the bottom of most pages have the logo of all four properties. He has no point multipliers, other than Seniors Days. The free play that is listed is quite a bit less than he had last month, if you added up what he received at the three places. Same with food coupons.
> I received THREE seperate mailers. They are booklets that look identical to his- on the outside. My mailers are a whole lot different on the inside. Mine have the name of each unique property printed at the bottom of most pages. There are three different calendars, and three different amounts of free play, room, and food offers. Gold Coast and Sam's Town have point multipliers, Orleans does not.
>

Unfortunately, the only way ( outside of having some high up contacts in the slot club or marketing division) to figure out the mailers is to have many people track their play accurately for 3 -6 months. Sometimes, when you finally figure out how it works, the slot club changes the rules again.

It's a lot of work to figure out mailers. I'd say the following would needed to be tracked for 6 months to get an idea of how the mailers work:

date, coin in, length of play, denomination, game type, distance to casino, win/loss record, amount of freeplay redeemed, amount of play on days freeplay was redeemed, card status.

This is just some factors off of the top of my head. There are probably many others as well. The more variables you track, the better you can estimate the bounceback checks. It is no longer as easy as "Play $10,000 a month and get 4 x $20 in mailers".

It is a lot of work. Plus, you never know the quality of the data you get from contributors. It can be done but it does take a lot of the "fun" out of gambling.

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[vpFREE] Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 30 OCT 2012

 

Jean Scott's Frugal Vegas LVA BLOG - 30 OCT 2012

"November Vegas Promotions"

http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=2394

<a href="http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=2394">
http://jscott.lvablog.com/?p=2394</a>

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discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
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[vpFREE] Re: Royal Flusher - Reboot My Heart Las Vegas!

 

The very latest updates from as recently as very recently.

http://www.royalflushervegas.com/2012/10/shhwit-in-shhwit-out-open.html

http://www.royalflushervegas.com/2012/10/last-day-of-trip-or-what.html

>
> All the links:
>>>>> http://www.royalflushervegas.com/2012/10/reboot-my-heart-las-vegas-links.html
>
>
>
> --
> Las Vegas the Royal Flusher Way!
> www.royalflushervegas.com

--
Las Vegas the Royal Flusher Way!
www.royalflushervegas.com

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Re: [vpFREE] Re: Coast Group

 

Talk about mudding the waters – would you all like to join my Headache Club!!!

------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

From: tikithecat73lakeworth
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:03 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Coast Group

My husband and I play at Orleans, Gold Coast, and Sam's Town. We have similar coin in, but he has been winning for the past few months, while I've been losing.
He received ONE joint mailer for the four Coasts- the bottom of most pages have the logo of all four properties. He has no point multipliers, other than Seniors Days. The free play that is listed is quite a bit less than he had last month, if you added up what he received at the three places. Same with food coupons.
I received THREE seperate mailers. They are booklets that look identical to his- on the outside. My mailers are a whole lot different on the inside. Mine have the name of each unique property printed at the bottom of most pages. There are three different calendars, and three different amounts of free play, room, and food offers. Gold Coast and Sam's Town have point multipliers, Orleans does not.

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[vpFREE] Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 30 OCT 2012

 

Scot Krause's LVA Players Club Bonus Points Update - 30 OCT 2012

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/greatdeals-slotpromotions.cfm</a>

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[vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 30 OCT 2012

 

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 30 OCT 2012

"The Ability to Pull the Trigger and Keeping One's Promise to Oneself"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/1030.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/1030.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/1030.cfm</a>

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