Well, thanks Bob. I wanted to make a follow up post just for clarity. I believe that most players, when they delve into learning a new game strategy, will try to do it from a top down standpoint, learning the higher paying hands first and working their way down the list. I think this is personal preference, so I am not making a judgment one way or the other, but I have always tended to concentrate more on the lower third of a strategy in a new game more than the top third of a chart. For me, the holds in the top third seem to be more obvious and intuitive than some of those toward the bottom of playable holds. In addition, those lower ranked holds and resulting paying hands will show up a hell of a lot more often than the higher paying hands toward the top of the list and my thinking has always been that I damn sure better know how to play the hand choices that I see the most often when playing. That being said, when Bob mentioned the ten as a penalty for filling two pair, my original reply was not considering the ten as the penalty to the holds in question. Whether Mike chooses the 3 ROY or the 4 FLU in his example, he will be keeping the ten in both cases. My point was that the only penalty card to completing a straight on the draw in the example cited was the jack. As I stated, it could have been any paint (face card) that would deplete the deck of that card on the draw. I hope that a player using either the bottom up or the top down schooling method will know and understand that when talking about a pair of tens or two pair on a draw is already overridden by the fact that any 3 ROY hold is going to be superior to any non paying pair in 9-6 HOB, regardless of what the fifth card in the hand is, so I consider this heading toward comparing apples to oranges territory. Of course, if the fifth card is also another club, it will be a pat flush, so take the 30 credits and move on. Perhaps I did not properly correctly convey what I was attempting to say, or Bob misread what I wrote. Don't feel alone, as I will occasionally experience an electrical cranial short circuit when words make the journey from my brain to the keyboard. By the way, I did receive a private email about the fact that my little chart uses almost all caps and can be considered yelling on a forum. I think the note was in jest, but in case some of you p.c. correct folks on typing on your p.c. (here we go with the acronym thing again), chill out, cuz I am likely not p.c. on most things, but I really don't care. I have found over the course of time, with my better half anyway, that using caps on a chart somehow seems to make it adhere in her mind better, so mission accomplished.
Nudge
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 4:44 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush?????
I haven't seen Nudge for several years now. I used to run into him at a couple of casinos I don't visit anymore (Gold Coast and Sam's Town). Anyway it's good to have him back here posting again --- even occasionally.
The list he posted of when 4-card flushes were superior to 3-card royals got 2/3 of them --- and the most important ones at that. But on a hand that starts out with a suited AKT2 and the fifth card is an off-suit T, you can't accurately call that T a straight penalty. It's actually a "two pair penalty" --- because it makes it harder to end up with two pair.
Seedub's "offsuit, unpaired, and higher than a 9" is 100% accurate.
Bob
The list he posted of when 4-card flushes were superior to 3-card royals got 2/3 of them --- and the most important ones at that. But on a hand that starts out with a suited AKT2 and the fifth card is an off-suit T, you can't accurately call that T a straight penalty. It's actually a "two pair penalty" --- because it makes it harder to end up with two pair.
Seedub's "offsuit, unpaired, and higher than a 9" is 100% accurate.
Bob
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Posted by: "nudge51" <nudge51@cox.net>
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